Emotional Intelligence Is Overrated

[johnnyyukon]

Is Lohan officially mentally ill? Tragic story, sure, but we're talking about mental illness in this situation... although getting back to topic (EQ), how would our EQ as a culture (for instance) contribute to how we view expressions of mental illness? Isn't there some importance in treating people in a consistent fashion, rather than vilifying one mentally ill person but venerating another? Or is there some other reason for the inequities? EQ might be more important in that it could reflect some things back to us as a culture, for the purposes of positive change.

Well ok, EQ. Wouldn't a person with a higher EQ see Lohan popping adderall like pez candy, and frequently getting arrested as a possible sign of mental illness? (I too have not looked into it).

I think IF you can get that person in treatment, homicidal tendencies or self-destructive tendencies, they are treated the same. A psychiatrist/psychologist with a very high EQ, I would think would have compassion for both, although it seems certainly understandable to favor the one that doesn't think about harming others. Doesn't mean you have to give them less treatment.

John Hinckley, Jr. for example, that hopeless romantic, according to his psychiatrists, "Hinckley has recovered to the point that he poses no imminent risk of danger to himself or others."

 

[Totenkindly]

Well ok, EQ. Wouldn't a person with a higher EQ see Lohan popping adderall like pez candy, and frequently getting arrested as a possible sign of mental illness? (I too have not looked into it).

I guess one of my questions is, what defines "mental illness" in these circumstances? I think we started out by discussing people who actually had hallucinations/psychotic breaks based on your examples. I don't think Lohan is in that category... but it's kind of a side issue, the thread topic is EQ and whether it's important or not (and even what it is).

A psychiatrist/psychologist with a very high EQ, I would think would have compassion for both, although it seems certainly understandable to favor the one that doesn't think about harming others. Doesn't mean you have to give them less treatment.

Yeah, that makes sense.

You're right, I didn't know about this but I will add that this was only the last couple of weeks, rather than anything extended. Did he go on public rampages like Amanda Bynes?

Nope... and that could be why he had far more sympathy. Amanda was potentially other-destructive, Williams only really hurt himself. So it seems like the "threat" level definitely impacts one's emotions towards such an individual, although it should not determine the treatment investment... both need help, kind of like what johnny said above.

(Another interesting thing -- Bynes was remarkably inept at actually hurting others, so she just became an object of public ridicule. If she had actually been able to competently hurt others and did so, the ridicule would shift to hate. But in both cases she'd still be suffering a psychosis.)

 

[cm81]

I have thought some of these things for a while. Thoughts? Opinions?

From Adam Grant on LinkedIn

Not long ago, the CEO of a sales company mentioned that he was spending millions of dollars to train his employees in emotional intelligence. He asked if it was possible to assess emotional intelligence during the interview process, which would allow him to hire salespeople who already excelled in this area.

I said yes, it can be done—but I wouldn’t recommend doing it.

Warning: if you’re a devoted member of an emotional intelligence cult, you may have a strong negative reaction to the data in this post. In case that happens, I’ve offered some guidance at the bottom on how to respond.

To make sure we’re on the same page, let’s be clear about what emotional intelligence is. Experts agree that it has three major elements: perceiving, understanding, and regulating emotions. Perceiving emotions is your ability to recognize different feelings. When looking at someone’s face, do you know the difference between joy and contentment, anxiety and sadness, or surprise and contempt? Understanding emotions is how well you identify the causes and consequences of different feelings. For example, can you figure out what will make your colleagues frustrated versus angry? Frustration occurs when people are blocked from achieving a goal; anger is a response to being mistreated or wronged. Regulating emotions is your effectiveness in managing what you and others feel. If you have a bad day but need to give an inspiring speech, can you psych yourself up and motivate your audience anyway?

I told the CEO that although these skills could be useful in sales, he’d be better off assessing cognitive ability. That’s traditional intelligence: the capability to reason and solve verbal, logical, and mathematical problems. Salespeople with high cognitive ability would be able to analyze information about customer needs and think on their feet to keep customers coming back. The CEO was convinced that emotional intelligence would matter more.

To see who was right, we designed a study. Working with Dane Barnes of Optimize Hire, we gave hundreds of salespeople two validated tests of emotional intelligence that measured their abilities to perceive, understand, and regulate emotions. We also gave them a five-minute test of their cognitive ability, where they had to solve a few logic problems. Then, we tracked their sales revenue over several months.

Cognitive ability was more than five times more powerful than emotional intelligence. The average employee with high cognitive ability generated annual revenue of over $195,000, compared with $159,000 for those with moderate cognitive ability and $109,000 for those with low cognitive ability. Emotional intelligence added nothing after measuring cognitive ability.

More info here

So the study, based on cognitive function, showed that those with a higher CF were able to generate more sales. And those with a higher EQ, weren't. But is that the overall point of EQ, or should the EQ of sales reps be more directly applied to correlating customer satisfaction and trust in a company/brand. Customers would feel less pressure to buy on impulse, reducing their stress levels, giving them more spending power; that would ultimately lead to quality over quantity, in the long run, wouldn't it? Resulting in better products, more ethical production standards as consideration of how and where things are produced increase... focus from sales could possibly shift to more sustainable solutions... I could get into this! There are hidden costs in everything. But I'm willing to bet a new approach EQ and cognitive ability would dramatically increase health of companies, health of customers (mental, environmental),...and well... environmental. Short term indulgence spending/sales mentality has done nothing for anyone, but putting rogue band aids on weeping sores. (this is off the top of my head. I'll come back to it later, when I have more time to focus my thoughts)

 

[rav3n]

Nope... and that could be why he had far more sympathy. Amanda was potentially other-destructive, Williams only really hurt himself. So it seems like the "threat" level definitely impacts one's emotions towards such an individual, although it should not determine the treatment investment... both need help, kind of like what johnny said above.

(Another interesting thing -- Bynes was remarkably inept at actually hurting others, so she just became an object of public ridicule. If she had actually been able to competently hurt others and did so, the ridicule would shift to hate. But in both cases she'd still be suffering a psychosis.)

Absolutely its got to do with perceived threat level. A substantial number of inmates are schizophrenics, undiagnosed or off their meds. So instead of funding mental health facilities, we now fund prisons. Pretty sad considering how one of the main reasons why they shut down mental health facilities was cost.

 

[johnnyyukon]

the thread topic is EQ and whether it's important or not (and even what it is).

I would say EQ is something like the archetypal feminine energy. Yin, mothering, nurturing, compassion, etc.

 

[rav3n]

I would say EQ is something like the archetypal feminine energy. Yin, mothering, nurturing, compassion, etc.

One behavioural aspect of high testosterone levels, would be prosocial behaviours and the desire for social dominance. This can easily be tied to a high EQ level.

 

[gromit]

I would say EQ is something like the archetypal feminine energy. Yin, mothering, nurturing, compassion, etc.

I thought it was about being able to "read" people and to know which actions on your part will elicit which reactions from others. I have no idea where I got that idea from though.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I thought it was about being able to "read" people and to know which actions on your part will elicit which reactions from others. I have no idea where I got that idea from though.

I'm a little ambivalent about this whole emotional intelligence thing, but yeah, I think that's definitely part of it.

I see it in two parts:

Understanding and reading others emotions.

Knowing how to, as you say, elicit reactions from that reading.

and...

What you actually do with that knowledge.

I'm sure there's a streamlined bullet point explanation somewhere out therez.

 

[highlander]

So the study, based on cognitive function, showed that those with a higher CF were able to generate more sales. And those with a higher EQ, weren't. But is that the overall point of EQ, or should the EQ of sales reps be more directly applied to correlating customer satisfaction and trust in a company/brand. Customers would feel less pressure to buy on impulse, reducing their stress levels, giving them more spending power; that would ultimately lead to quality over quantity, in the long run, wouldn't it? Resulting in better products, more ethical production standards as consideration of how and where things are produced increase... focus from sales could possibly shift to more sustainable solutions... I could get into this! There are hidden costs in everything. But I'm willing to bet a new approach EQ and cognitive ability would dramatically increase health of companies, health of customers (mental, environmental),...and well... environmental. Short term indulgence spending/sales mentality has done nothing for anyone, but putting rogue band aids on weeping sores. (this is off the top of my head. I'll come back to it later, when I have more time to focus my thoughts)

Your points raise an interesting question on where they got their data. In my business, long term customer satisfaction and trust built up over time is very much related to sales volume. If they were basing their results on a different kind of business, such as buying a car, it is much more transactional. Different aspects of intelligence, including different kinds of emotional intelligence, would factor into the criteria related to the likelihood of someone being successful at a job. It's too simplistic to make a broad sweeping statement that EQ doesn't matter. It depends on what aspects of it your are applying it to.

It turns out that the study was commissioned by this company called Optimize Hire, who sells pre-employment tests. They have their agenda of course that they are trying to promote - their proprietary system that they sell. This is a video that describes it.

I hate the idea of these tests. However, I do believe that cognitive ability does correlate with effectiveness in many jobs. Motivation most certainly does. Personality - well, I don't know how they define that so it's hard to tell.

Edit: It looks like they use Big 5

http://www.optimizehire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ThoresenBradleyBlieseThoresen2004.pdf

 

[Mole]

Our Secret Service is publicly advertising for recruits with a high IQ and a high EQ.

 

[gromit]

I'm a little ambivalent about this whole emotional intelligence thing, but yeah, I think that's definitely part of it.

I see it in two parts:

Understanding and reading others emotions.

Knowing how to, as you say, elicit reactions from that reading.

and...

What you actually do with that knowledge.

I'm sure there's a streamlined bullet point explanation somewhere out therez.

Do you think people can use EQ for less-than-good purposes? I kind of do.

 

[rav3n]

In case anyone hasn't seen this study, EQ by MBTI type, as it correlates to business.

https://hpsys.com/PDFs/Type_ and_EI_Landscapes2.pdf

 

[prplchknz]

Do you think people can use EQ for less-than-good purposes? I kind of do.

absolutely and they do, constantly

 

[johnnyyukon]

Do you think people can use EQ for less-than-good purposes? I kind of do.

100% they can. And do all the time.

That's why I mentioned "What you actually do with that knowledge. "

One could use it to help or use it to manipulate. Extreme examples, think of the charming serial killers, Ted Bundy and Rodney Alcala or the "Dating Game Killer," to name a few.

 

[Galena]

I would think that being able to abuse EQ effectively takes above average EQ, but someone with even better EQ than that would understand what's wrong with abusing it.

 

[senza tema]

Mmm. This is why kids get kicked out of school for cheating but rapists can stay. A clear case of overrating emotional intelligence, if I ever saw one.

 

[Mole]

Popular culture has discovered EQ. So our Secret Service is recruiting from popular culture. It gives fresh meaning to the words, military intelligence*.

* See On the Psychology of Military Incompetence by Norman Dixon.

 

[gromit]

100% they can. And do all the time.

That's why I mentioned "What you actually do with that knowledge. "

One could use it to help or use it to manipulate. Extreme examples, think of the charming serial killers, Ted Bundy and Rodney Alcala or the "Dating Game Killer," to name a few.

I would think that being able to abuse EQ effectively takes above average EQ, but someone with even better EQ than that would understand what's wrong with abusing it.

So you guys would say that morality is tied into EQ?

Seems like a different dimension altogether, but I guess I could see it going either way.

 

[miss fortune]

So you guys would say that morality is tied into EQ?

Seems like a different dimension altogether, but I guess I could see it going either way.

I would say that it wasn't because morality, in a way, can be constructed but EQ? you can only get a sad shadow of it, not the real thing...

I say this as an emotional idiot who doesn't know how to respond when someone's excited or starts crying or anything of the sort... I have a mental file cabinet of acceptable responses but I'm rather aware that they lack the genuineness of the spontaneous responses of those who innately KNOW what to do. I know what someone's feeling a lot of the time but have no fucking clue what I'M supposed to do about it... emoting people make me very uncomfortable

however, I wouldn't describe myself as immoral... I have my own personal rules that I try my hardest not to violate... these rules protect others and recognize their own autonomy

so just my two cents there

 

[johnnyyukon]

So you guys would say that morality is tied into EQ?

Seems like a different dimension altogether, but I guess I could see it going either way.

Here's what I found, Official Definition:

4 Main Factors of Emotional Intelligence:

1. Perceiving Emotions: The first step in understanding emotions is to accurately perceive them. In many cases, this might involve understanding nonverbal signals such as body language and facial expressions.

2. Reasoning With Emotions: The next step involves using emotions to promote thinking and cognitive activity. Emotions help prioritize what we pay attention and react to; we respond emotionally to things that garner our attention.

3. Understanding Emotions: The emotions that we perceive can carry a wide variety of meanings. If someone is expressing angry emotions, the observer must interpret the cause of their anger and what it might mean. For example, if your boss is acting angry, it might mean that he is dissatisfied with your work; or it could be because he got a speeding ticket on his way to work that morning or that he's been fighting with his wife.

4. Managing Emotions: The ability to manage emotions effectively is a key part of emotional intelligence. Regulating emotions, responding appropriately and responding to the emotions of others are all important aspect of emotional management.


So to me, and what I've read, it has nothing to do with morality. Just like regular 'ol intelligence.