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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    three words: lsd
    You mean "three letters."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #12
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    Narcotics Anonymous did not save my sister, no matter how religiously she attended, no matter how much coffee she drank or cigarettes she smoked, or friends/acquaintances she made. She simply traded one addiction for another and fell off the wagon eventually into an even worse state.

    AA though was extremely effective for my grandfather.

    I wonder how much type has to do with it. My grandfather was an ISTJ and took to church and sober life like a champ, so much so that he was rigid and unyielding.

    My sister is likely ESxP.

  3. #13
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Narcotics Anonymous did not save my sister, no matter how religiously she attended, no matter how much coffee she drank or cigarettes she smoked, or friends/acquaintances she made. She simply traded one addiction for another and fell off the wagon eventually into an even worse state.

    AA though was extremely effective for my grandfather.

    I wonder how much type has to do with it. My grandfather was an ISTJ and took to church and sober life like a champ, so much so that he was rigid and unyielding.

    My sister is likely ESxP.
    this is usually the case. but the problem is the claim it works for everyone when it doesn't. if it was like this might work for you it might not that be different
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    one of the concepts is the reason you're able to not drink while in the program and will only work if you stay. is because of some invisible higher power. I came to the conclusion I didn't drink because I decided not to there is no higher power. basically they're saying to give up your will. and this was my impression and apparently a lot of others everything good that happens in your life is because of the program or a higher power (doesn't matter how much work you put in you had nothing to do with it) while anything bad that happens is completely your fault.
    Honestly the only two methods I think work are Higher Power or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, because both create perspective and internal centering if authentic. My sister won't sit still for CBT though. A therapist outright told my mother, your daughter doesn't want help, she doesn't want to change and she doesn't care about anyone but herself and she will likely always be this way. I so wish I had been there for the actual discussion because my mother isn't well versed on personality disorders but that's essentially what my sister has.

  5. #15
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Honestly the only two methods I think work are Higher Power or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, because both create perspective and internal centering if authentic. My sister won't sit still for CBT though. A therapist outright told my mother, your daughter doesn't want help, she doesn't want to change and she doesn't care about anyone but herself and she will likely always be this way. I so wish I had been there for the actual discussion because my mother isn't well versed on personality disorders but that's essentially what my sister has.
    oh yeah, haha I accidently told you to read the post you quoted. I agree, mostly maybe i dunno i don't think there's just one way for anything well some things. but most things no.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #16
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    i feel like...and trust me, i'm somewhat an authority when it comes to abusing alcohol...it's more about wanting to change than anything.

    if a person doesn't want to be sober, it really doesn't matter what you say or do, s/he'll find a way to not be sober. sure, intermittent periods of sobriety are possible...but alcohol is too readily available to force someone to not imbibe.

    and the reverse is the key. if the person wants to be sober...not much will get in their way. it's not easy...but if you really want it, you'll find a way to pull through.

    not surprised that these programs are ineffective...from what i've gathered, it's more about the social environment anyhow. like in fight club, how the lead went to sessions because he was bored. it's a form of cognitive dissonance...lying to yourself that you're trying to help yourself to ease your own guilt.

    at the end of the day...and it's something i've realized relatively recently...you can not help someone who doesn't want to be helped. you can't help the helpless. you can drag a mule to a trough, but bet your ass (get it?) you can't get him to drink.

  7. #17
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I was looking up something completely different when I found this little diddy. Someone is using enneagram for addiction treatment. Kind of cool The Enneagram Center for Transformation and Change I know it's not aa or even criticizing aa but I don't think it deserves it's own thread.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #18
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I'm also sure it's creates a whole other type of addiction and crutch in Christianity.
    I don't know about Christianity (though it was founded on a Christian model) but yes, AA, in and of itself I think it can be another addiction, though certainly better than alcohol.

    I thought I knew what an alcoholic was until I became reaquainted with an old High School buddy who's promising college Soccer scholarship, and possibly related career path was pissed down the toilet because of his Alcoholism, probably caused by his severe social anxiety.

    #1 star player in a D1 High School, he'd had 3 DUIs by the age of 22, flunked out of college, getting pills and mescaline cacti mailed to our apartment without us knowing because he lived with his parents, and drinking every drop of alcohol left in our apartment after me and my roommate would go to sleep, then passing out on our couch.

    His upper middle class parents, one who was a professor, paid $30,000 for a yearish long rehab that seemed to help. Though a couple of relapses followed, one started with an innocent puff of weed and ended 3 days later with empty jugs of whiskey, dozens of empty beer cans, crack pipes, and things he can't even remember, strewn about his place.

    One of the smartest guys I've ever known too.

    I don't think I've ever had a bad substance abuse problem, but have definitely been in situations where it seemed that fate was out of my hands and I can only begin to imagine how this poor bastard felt and the appeal and maybe even necessity of a belief in a higher power was.

    All in all, AA seemed to help him, but I can't help but see it as another crutch (which is fine for a while) but I think eventually, if you truly want to be whole, you have to find the root of the cause and address it. But that can be a lifelong journey in some cases and someone might be dead from an overdose by then, so ya know, whatever works, or helps you cope.

    I've heard that ibogaine and ayahuasca (POWERFUL psychoactives), when done in a proper ritual setting (mostly in Peru or Africa) have had permanent, documented success stories for many people. But I don't think you can go down to the Quick Clinic for it.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I've been to court mandated AA and I went to a few meetings on my own to see if they would make things any easier around my one year mark and I really didn't like it

    my major problems were that I didn't feel like it held me accountable for my decisions and I didn't like all of the god stuff

    I guess that my thoughts are that it's my choice to take that first drink and I know where it tends to head (another won't kill me... I need to let loose a bit) and I still made that decision on many, many occasions. I knew what would happen but thought that maybe this time I could do it better and it usually turned out that I couldn't. The idea that I was powerless in my situation and had to put my fate in the hands of something I wasn't even sure that I believed in seemed like a terrible idea.

    And the prayers... there's so much praying and hugging and thanking god and everything during meetings that it made me incredibly uncomfortable... which, coincidentally made me really, really want a drink to reassure me that everything would be ok and the scary people would be made less scary

    Also, I take some issues with always having to introduce yourself as an alcoholic every time you mention who you are. If you put in the effort and DON'T drink then you deserve to put recovering or former before the word... what's the point of putting the effort into changing if you keep the same label? It's like getting a promotion in work but not title or pay.

    The meetings were depressing, overly huggy, people pried into my personal life way more than I had any desire to and everything was about how you have no power in your life and have to put your fate in the hands of god... eww!

    Plus, the whole making amends thing? Apologizing isn't shit... make a change and stick to it and then you've shown that you're sorry. Talk is cheap and they've already heard every excuse or apology in the book and another isn't going to make a difference because you've let them down every single fucking time. If you mean it just change, don't say it.

    That's my two cents. I've been sober over 3 years and I've done it by challenging myself, not by putting my fate in someone else's hands
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett
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  10. #20
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Plus, the whole making amends thing? Apologizing isn't shit... make a change and stick to it and then you've shown that you're sorry. Talk is cheap and they've already heard every excuse or apology in the book and another isn't going to make a difference because you've let them down every single fucking time. If you mean it just change, don't say it.
    In my case, he feels that he did a great job of parenting our kids. Great job = paying minimal court ordered child support and having just enough contact to fuck with them. It only makes me want to take a brick and smash his face over and over and over because he will never grasp that he caused any damage, let alone how much.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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