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Thread: A theory

  1. #61
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    I behave very differently online than what I do in real life, still my motives are the same, online I am more what I'd like to be. But being on the internet is just a stupid waste of time... escapism! Everyone I meet on the internet, I'll never meet in real life, and no one here is really my friend.
    Deep emotional connection cannot be found online. It's an astounding venue to share ideas though. Back in the days, intellectuals could only interact with each other thru letters and books and universities, and had limited access to ideas and thoughts that had the chance to spark new ideas in them.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I kind of agree. Damn, I've seen so many people on here saying things to me they wouldn't say IRL.

    I hate to think that nearly everyone is just cowering behind the computer screen (although this happens), but it's also an artificial sort of socializing--quiet people can come off looking talkative and long-winded, etc. This isn't real socializing, so we are bound to "vibe" differently than we are.

    Yeah, I've given up on typing people online exactly for the reasons we're both mentioning. It's NOT real interaction, and we can present ourselves as anything we want. You're absolutely right.

    In my own case, I swear to God my mind works the same online as it does IRL, but you have to get to know me before you see that side of me. Plus, words sometimes come out of my mouth differently than they sound when I think them (I mean, I would never say "Oh my goodness", but I've typed it a few times), then different individuals will read an interpret my words slightly differently...of course our doppelgangers come out online.

    Also,

    FWIW, I've been told I come across as a 6, 7, 1, 9, or occasionally 8 online (though the 8 is disputable to many because I don't waste much time with online arguments). IRL, most people (my own family) seemed to think I was a 4 or 5 when I showed them years ago. They'd never figure me for a 9. Go figure out those discrepancies. Those who find me plain-spoken, interesting, and chatty online would be taken aback by how withdrawn, asocial, and non-participatory I am upon first meeting IRL.

    I swear, though, I am still the same person inside my head.
    I love how you say that it's NOT real interaction. A large part of true communication is nonverbal. In fact, for years now people have argued about just what percentage nonverbal cues play in communication How much of communication is really nonverbal? | Nonverbal The bottom line, or point that I'm making is, that ALL of us, no matter how authentic we hope to be, are but a shadow of our true selves online. That's why, in my own opinion, people are more connected than they've ever been, yet more lonely.

    I also appreciate the reference you make to people hiding behind a computer. I feel often that people say things to me they would never say IRL. I try not to do that but I admit that online I have a better filter online than in real life, but I've pretty much always got a filter. Most things get processed before they get said or written.

    Also, @prplchknz just out of curiosity, what is your type? I was under the impression you were an INFP.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #63
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Also, @prplchknz just out of curiosity, what is your type? I was under the impression you were an INFP.
    no longer sure, when I typed INFP i was under a lot of shit, and very unhealthy. And reading up on it I don't really relate. But that being said I dunno my type.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #64
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I kind of agree. Damn, I've seen so many people on here saying things to me they wouldn't say IRL.

    I hate to think that nearly everyone is just cowering behind the computer screen (although this happens), but it's also an artificial sort of socializing--quiet people can come off looking talkative and long-winded, etc. This isn't real socializing, so we are bound to "vibe" differently than we are.

    Yeah, I've given up on typing people online exactly for the reasons we're both mentioning. It's NOT real interaction, and we can present ourselves as anything we want. You're absolutely right.

    In my own case, I swear to God my mind works the same online as it does IRL, but you have to get to know me before you see that side of me. Plus, words sometimes come out of my mouth differently than they sound when I think them (I mean, I would never say "Oh my goodness", but I've typed it a few times), then different individuals will read an interpret my words slightly differently...of course our doppelgangers come out online.

    FWIW, I've been told I come across as a 6, 7, 1, 9, or occasionally 8 online (though the 8 is disputable to many because I don't waste much time with online arguments). IRL, most people (my own family) seemed to think I was a 4 or 5 when I showed them years ago. They'd never figure me for a 9. Go figure out those discrepancies. Those who find me plain-spoken, interesting, and chatty online would be taken aback by how withdrawn, asocial, and non-participatory I am upon first meeting IRL.

    I swear, though, I am still the same person inside my head.
    yeah we're still all the same people in our heads no matter how we act. But the thing is people type people here off of their posts, and that's fine that is one part of the puzzle. But rarely have I had any one listen to me when I explain why I did something and how it doesn't align with their interpretation. Don't we use all functions just in varying degrees? some are more developed then others. It has a lot to do with bias.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #65
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I hate to think that nearly everyone is just cowering behind the computer screen (although this happens), but it's also an artificial sort of socializing--quiet people can come off looking talkative and long-winded, etc. This isn't real socializing, so we are bound to "vibe" differently than we are. .
    Ick.

    I think it is a sign of good health when the public/private, online/offline splits begin to close up. Not that I don't have them - they gross me out, in fact, because I know them very intimately.

    Unlike a lot of posters say, online is part of the "public" behavioral sphere for me. It didn't used to be, but it became so as I got older. I won't be any more confrontational here than I'd be in real life. Perhaps I'm more self-disclosing here, but then, I disclose just as much if I am in a situation in the flesh that encourages and rewards it to the degree that places like this site do. There are just very few of those situations IRL, and seeking them is far more arduous.

    The real split for me is public vs intimate, not online vs off. With those closest to me, I will confront freely, be angry, express emotionally. They could actually tell I'm a type 4 - wow, right? In public, I've had formative experiences that objectively proved a lack of strength in certain areas, so I don't give anything an opening. The only thing that could change this is new experiential evidence (I live and die by evidence) that I can do what I failed to before. I get stuck on preparing forever in private for the right moment - playing games with my endurance, reading, training my body, etc.

    As far as type goes, I can't stomach the belief that who one is where they're comfortable is who they really are. The more pressure one is under, the more their true colors will show. I think the only thoughts or behaviors that are relevant to type at all are those that coincide: internal motivations and beliefs that are backed up by action in the time and place they are intended for (not vented at home when they are really about work, explored inside when one dreams of living them, etc). The bottled up is a fantasy as much as a mask is. No time for introspecting + no tolerance for masks = typing.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  6. #66
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    no longer sure, when I typed INFP i was under a lot of shit, and very unhealthy. And reading up on it I don't really relate. But that being said I dunno my type.
    You know you better than anybody and that certainly carries more weight than online discussions with strangers. However, the online discussion with strangers does provide us a neutral and virtual place to explore. Nardi said in one post I that at any one time each of us are engaging a minimum of two functions. Here, I think I can find the exact quote...

    "In complexity science, we might say your type is a strange attractor. In practice this means, while many combinations of function use or other qualities are possible, in practice there are "gravitational pulls" toward to certain spaces that are notably sustainable.

    With regard to the functions, I believe a healthy adult needs at least two functions in play most of the time. Why? Because we're all pretty much tasked to do extraverting and introverting, perceiving and judging. We need a minimum of two functions to cover those bases. For example, Ni with Te. (Those happen to be my preferences, represented as INTJ).

    After those two, my research suggests that the second most common pattern is our near-opposite personality type, say ISFP for INTJ. That's Fi + Se. As I look at the brain activity of midlife adults now in my lab, and not just college students, I see this more than ever. I've had two midlife INFJs. Could hardly tell if they are INFJ or ISTP.

    Because personality is a pattern, and people are organic and messy, I think it's inevitable that we express aspects of all 8 functions, though not always consciously or effectively....." Dario Nardi

    So, in a sense, his theory supports your own.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  7. #67
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yeah we're still all the same people in our heads no matter how we act. But the thing is people type people here off of their posts, and that's fine that is one part of the puzzle. But rarely have I had any one listen to me when I explain why I did something and how it doesn't align with their interpretation. Don't we use all functions just in varying degrees? some are more developed then others. It has a lot to do with bias.
    Yeah, you're right about that. Most professional practitioners won't formally type people without an in-person meeting, which I think corroborates what you're saying. I feel your frustration about people who won't listen to your explanations as well--this has happened to me in other places, at other times.

    Yeah, we use all the functions, too, in my mind. At least, I'm sure I'm an ENTP, yet I catch myself doing Se and Fi stuff all the time. I don't have those as part of my overall Ne + Ti process, but that doesn't mean I don't use the functions in some form. Silly internet.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I love how you say that it's NOT real interaction. A large part of true communication is nonverbal. In fact, for years now people have argued about just what percentage nonverbal cues play in communication How much of communication is really nonverbal? | Nonverbal The bottom line, or point that I'm making is, that ALL of us, no matter how authentic we hope to be, are but a shadow of our true selves online. That's why, in my own opinion, people are more connected than they've ever been, yet more lonely.
    I'm someone who is largely oblivious to body language, but I have to agree on this. There have been times online, for instance, where people don't know how to BACK THE FUCK DOWN from me. IRL, I could easily give them a warning look, but this presence is lost online. I find myself having to argue back interminably because folks can't read physical self-assertion online. I wind up in situations I don't normally get into IRL.

    Not only that, but it's also slower. I can write out a full-fledged response without interruption, edit my words, look up sources, etc. before anyone else is privy to my thoughts.

    I also appreciate the reference you make to people hiding behind a computer. I feel often that people say things to me they would never say IRL. I try not to do that but I admit that online I have a better filter online than in real life, but I've pretty much always got a filter. Most things get processed before they get said or written.
    Yeah, I try not to do that myself (hide behind a computer screen). One of my points of "online honor" is not to say anything on the computer I wouldn't say IRL. Yet, I feel that (SOME) others do this. Some folks' online conduct simply wouldn't work in the real world. It's always like, do you wanna get offline and say that to my face? Because I am sure 90% of those people wouldn't dare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixie View Post
    Ick.

    I think it is a sign of good health when the public/private, online/offline splits begin to close up. Not that I don't have them - they gross me out, in fact, because I know them very intimately.

    Unlike a lot of posters say, online is part of the "public" behavioral sphere for me. It didn't used to be, but it became so as I got older. I won't be any more confrontational here than I'd be in real life. Perhaps I'm more self-disclosing here, but then, I disclose just as much if I am in a situation in the flesh that encourages and rewards it to the degree that places like this site do. There are just very few of those situations IRL, and seeking them is far more arduous.
    That's interesting. You have a very different reaction to my post that Ene did above. Would you say that the majority of posters treat forums as other than public? I find that an interesting question because, in the subject of typology, we're discussing very intimate psychological phenomenon within a public sphere.

    As far as type goes, I can't stomach the belief that who one is where they're comfortable is who they really are. The more pressure one is under, the more their true colors will show. I think the only thoughts or behaviors that are relevant to type at all are those that coincide: internal motivations and beliefs that are backed up by action in the time and place they are intended for (not vented at home when they are really about work, explored inside when one dreams of living them, etc). The bottled up is a fantasy as much as a mask is. No time for introspecting + no tolerance for masks = typing.
    I agree. You don't really know who people are till the shit hits the fan. It is often through out unconscious, knee-jerk reactions that our types become apparent--generally moreso to others than to ourselves. Unfortunately, I think these things are harder to capture on forum commentary.

  9. #69
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    You could be 486 then. Don't know why but the closest is 468 tritype.

    Work on that enneagram 3 charm. I already sense some type 3 playfulness
    Erm, as far as I know, one does not "work on" characteristics of a type they have no line to. I've heard people say they are "working toward" integration by trying to develop the traits of their health point, but I think that's a little backwards too-- work on self, integration happens. Not visa versa. Plus, I'm sure you realize how insulting it is to a 4 to suggest they become something else-- especially something deceitful and fake.

    468 is the other one I did consider (458, 468 and 451) even though I actually test pretty low in 6 (6, 2 and 3 are my bottom scores usually, 2 has definitely been higher the less healthy I am though). I do fancy myself a truth teller, but probably not to the firecracker extent of 468 if I'm honest. When I first started looking at tritype, I basically scoured the internet for credible info on the three I narrowed it down to and took notes. From there I could pretty clearly see which characteristics were truer of myself.
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  10. #70
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixie View Post
    The real split for me is public vs intimate, not online vs off. With those closest to me, I will confront freely, be angry, express emotionally. They could actually tell I'm a type 4 - wow, right? In public, I've had formative experiences that objectively proved a lack of strength in certain areas, so I don't give anything an opening. The only thing that could change this is new experiential evidence (I live and die by evidence) that I can do what I failed to before. I get stuck on preparing forever in private for the right moment - playing games with my endurance, reading, training my body, etc.
    Hey! Was just reading and had to comment: the bolded is very 5, have you contemplated a 5 wing (not that all 4's don't have some fragments of both sides in them)? I mean the mention of evidence is obvious, but that's not even really what I'm talking about. The preparing, reading, researching all with the intent of doing something well, but not wanting to until you are sure all the ducks are in a row-- that's 5. The Wisdom of the Enneagram describes it as "stepping back" until everything is right, or known or whatever the case by be, but often that turns into years of waiting it out. I digress, and surely you know your type better than anyone, just wanted to share the thought.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

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