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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Yes, the Catholic Mass is an age-old trance induction, refined and perfected over many centuries.
    Some Catholics merely get bored at Mass but many others go right down to trance level four where they can't distinguish between imagination and reality.
    Ages ago, the Catholic Church was afraid polyphony in music could lead people to doubt the unity of God. Certain distances between notes were considered dissonant, and subsequently banned by the Church, since they were certainly the evil work of Lucifer. Today, those "evil" sounds are commonly known as: pitch.

    What do you expect from the Catholic Church, rational behavior?

  2. #22
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    Default Reason, Mysticism and Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    What do you expect from the Catholic Church, rational behavior?
    The Catholic Church prides itself on their doctrine of Faith and Reason.

    The Catholic Church prides itself on establishing the first universities.

    The Catholic Church prides itself in bringing us Ancient Greek culture through the Renaissance.

    The Catholic Church has internalised the values of the Enlightenment of evidence and reason.

    And the Catholic Church through education has brought prosperous countries universal literacy.

    And as well as reason the Catholic Church has given us mysticism: the mysticism of the Mass as well as many living mystics.

    My favourite mystic is Simone Weil (pronounced Vey), the first woman graduate of the Catholic founded Sorbonne University in Paris.

    The lovable Simone incarnated both reason and mysticism.

    Could we ask for more?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Sounds more jungian than freudian

    "In 1980, after having worked as a psychoanalyst and an analyst trainer for 20 years, Miller “stopped practicing and teaching psychoanalysis in order to explore childhood systematically".[10] She became critical of both Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung."
    Freud was rational. Miller was rational. Jung was psychotic.

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  5. #25
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Freud was rational. Miller was rational. Jung was psychotic.
    Yet, much of what you talk about(like in general on the forums, your ideas and such) follows the jungian model of the psyche really closely . Maybe you havent studied jung to the extend where you would be able to see it as clearly as i can(but modern psychology follows Jungs model more than freuds and thats most likely where you got adopted jungian ideas so much). Or maybe your unconscious is trying to tell you something?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    your unconscious is trying to tell you something?
    Psychotics wear their unconscious on their sleeves. In other words, the unconscious of psychotics is not under their conscious control. This is why they are insane.

    I do quite understand that the New Age romanticizes insanity. And I do understand that adolescents want to experience their unconscious without the control of their conscious.

    However grownups, about the age of 22, have learnt conscious control of their unconscious, both their superego and their id. But such mature control comes at a price, which Sigmund Freud set out in his book, Civilization and Its Discontents.

    And strikingly, narcissists don't want to pay the price of civilization; and adolescents aren't yet ready.

    We may read, "Civilization and Its Discontents, by Sigmund Freud, published in 1929 by clicking on http://www2.winchester.ac.uk/edstudi...Civil-Disc.pdf

  7. #27
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Freud was rational.
    "My dear Jung, promise me never to abandon the sexual theory. That is the most essential thing of all. You see, we must make a dogma of it, an unshakable bulwark."

    That was the end of Freud and Jung working together.

    Unsurprisingly, he gave Freud a middle finger salute and headed on down the highway. Alone.

  8. #28
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    freud: does your mommy give you a boner?
    jung: no, but you give my middle finger a boner.

  9. #29
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Psychotics wear their unconscious on their sleeves. In other words, the unconscious of psychotics is not under their conscious control. This is why they are insane.

    I do quite understand that the New Age romanticizes insanity. And I do understand that adolescents want to experience their unconscious without the control of their conscious.

    However grownups, about the age of 22, have learnt conscious control of their unconscious, both their superego and their id. But such mature control comes at a price, which Sigmund Freud set out in his book, Civilization and Its Discontents.

    And strikingly, narcissists don't want to pay the price of civilization; and adolescents aren't yet ready.

    We may read, "Civilization and Its Discontents, by Sigmund Freud, published in 1929 by clicking on http://www2.winchester.ac.uk/edstudi...Civil-Disc.pdf
    Psychotics have malfunctioning unconscious in itself, but yes the unconscious shows more readily in psychotic people, but the unconscious is not that as much in control of anyone as we would often want to believe. Meditation and in some cases therapy and religion are way of gaining more control over the unconscious(except ofc in the case of religion the shape of the unconscious and how it is felt is more or less dictated by other people). Its funny that some religions even say this thing; "become a christian and you get to heaven" "become a jew and you get to jew heaven" "become a new age hippy and you get to the god head or whatever" etc etc

    and yes, the frontal lobes which send inhibitory signals(in attempts to filter unwanted information), partly control dopamine streams and handles some important things in conscious(at least seemingly) decision making etc etc etc develop slower compared to other parts of the brains. nn freud for that info
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #30
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Could we ask for more?
    Some 5-10 year old boy toy would be nice
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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