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  1. #51
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    I went to an all boys boarding school where I wasn't liked at all. Fortunately I had an inner life and inner integrity that enabled me to survive.

    Of course I love people to like me, but if they don't, I always have an inner place to retreat to.

    And having an inner retreat enables me to start to see people as they really are. And I have found that each person is more interested in themselves than they are in me.

    And in a way this frees me to be myself. For when I am not liked, I know it doesn't have much to do with me but is more a reflection of the person themselves.

    And of course love loves love. So when you love with courage, you are often loved in return.

    And not needing to be liked, but simply liking to be liked, enables you to step outside the taken-for-granted into ecstasy.

  2. #52
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And I have found that each person is more interested in themselves than they are in me.

    And in a way this frees me to be myself. For when I am not liked, I know it doesn't have much to do with me but is more a reflection of the person themselves.

    And of course love loves love. So when you love with courage, you are often loved in return.

    And not needing to be liked, but simlpy liking to be liked, enables you to step outside the taken-for-granted into ecstasy.
    Wisdom overfloweth.

  3. #53
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I see nothing wrong with feeling vulnerable and insecure when we really like someone. Not that I think it's a walk in the park or anything, but I'm just saying that I think it's normal.

    According to Freud, as a newborn baby, we only possess an "Id". The "Id" is base, selfish and narcissistic by necessity to aide in our survival at the time. But the "Id" is the antithesis of love imo (because to love is to give) and if we want to love and be loved in return we must detach from this Id. I think this is a slow and gradual process which takes many years, up to a lifetime, for us to detach and to fully love others. I see the process as a beautiful, complex, and often times frustrating dance that we must perform if we are to be truly evolved and enlightened. Just my opinion.

    But, yes, it is disturbing and hard.

  4. #54
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.
    This is your Fe at work. Your feeling is about other people. You are always to some extent going to want other people to like you. Your self-esteem is low right now. It is an extremely common problem. You want to realize that people are different--should be obvious given your interest in this forum. You don't like everyone, therefore it should not surprise you that not everyone is going to like you. It's not reasonable or rational to expect everyone to like you. Also realize that sometimes a pretty girl might look away out of habit because she is contantly being gawked at and that might make her uncomfortable; I hear INFJs don't like that, so maybe she is an INFJ. That does not necessarily mean she does not like you--Everybody has their thing. Another thing to remember is that not everyone--especially women--is turned on by what they see. I heard once that men have eye-gasms, women have ear-gasms. For the women reading this, that is not necessarily always the case either.

    Hate is a product of self-hate. If someone says they don't like another person, what they really mean is they don't like in that other person whatever it is that is symbolic of their own self-hate. This means that if someone does not like you, what they are really showing is that they see something in you that reminds them on an unconcious level about what they don't like about themself. Another thing to realize is that not everyone makes happy, smiling faces--me for one. That does not mean they hate you or even dislike you. You have no idea what people are thinking so don't try to beam those thoughts into their head.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    I see nothing wrong with feeling vulnerable and insecure when we really like someone. Not that I think it's a walk in the park or anything, but I'm just saying that I think it's normal.

    According to Freud, as a newborn baby, we only possess an "Id". The "Id" is base, selfish and narcissistic by necessity to aide in our survival at the time. But the "Id" is the antithesis of love imo (because to love is to give) and if we want to love and be loved in return we must detach from this Id. I think this is a slow and gradual process which takes many years, up to a lifetime, for us to detach and to fully love others. I see the process as a beautiful, complex, and often times frustrating dance that we must perform if we are to be truly evolved and enlightened. Just my opinion.

    But, yes, it is disturbing and hard.
    <3
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  6. #56
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Awesome responses. dissonance, what you said is making me think about some stuff. Thanks.

    I figured out that the reason I don't like not feeling good about people is that I think I'm supposed to, and that not feeling good is a sign of anxiety, and that in my mind I force myself to fix that instantaneously.

    As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.

  7. #57
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Wow, that's interesting, Edahn. Your need to have people like you makes a lot more sense now.

  8. #58
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Well, I can very much identify with your OP, and I still don't fully understand it. When I'm alone, I seem to accept myself fine; as soon as I get around others, I get neurotic and hate disappointing them. That's why I hate conflict. It's why I hate the fact you and I have had words sometimes. I just hate disappointing others, and I hate the distance it often creates in the relationship.

    Because part of it was feeling out of control. If I disappointed someone, they might reject me even though I wanted to maintain things.

    Worse, though, they might have thought I was a bad person. Because I did not see myself as legitimate or have faith in who I was, any criticism of me was read as a valid endictment.

    Only when I finally started to accept myself and my own humanity (strengths, flaws, frailties, feelings, desires, distastes) and not be ashamed of them, not define myself as an "ugly person," could I stand up in the face of someone else's disappointment.

    I'm not over it yet, but I can now survive disappointing others without necessarily lashing out at people who I disappoint. It's a long journey. I just realized I could not control people's responses, and if I tried too much to do that, I dishonored myself as well as them.

    I can identify a little with your discomfort for others. For example, I can laugh at shows where tricks are played on people (whether Jackass or Kutchner's show) because I am detached and see the situational humor and enjoy it... but I could never ever do those things myself. Or like watching people stumble through question-answering on TV... even if they really are a little dense.

    It makes me really uncomfortable to see someone else get angry because they've been embarrassed in some way. I also project into them and feel their embarrassment and feel bad about it. You have a lot of empathy for others and also a developed "mirroring" skill, and while that is a strength in some ways and a survival mechanism as well, it can also create a lot of anxiety and tension.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #59
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    Most of the time I not only want but absolutely require that people like me, and if they do not, I struggle with the urge to do whatever it takes to win them over.

    But occasionally there are times... few and far between... when I just don't give a ratzass about whether other people like me.

  10. #60
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    ...
    As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.
    I apologize for the length of this post.

    I can very much relate to these feelings.
    I have dealt with them for most of my life up to now.
    The good news is that I am much better than I used to be,
    so I believe there is hope for you.

    I actually was unable to watch American Idol for several years because of the way Simon insults people the way he does,
    and I really cannot for the life of me understand why they show the awful auditions of people singing bad, just so they can publicly humiliate them.

    However, far from being able to please people the way you say you try to do, I was convinced that I would never be able to please people and so went through life self-sabotaging every relationship... doing and saying stupid things that would make people reject me... so that I could be in control of the rejection, presumably. I was frustrated because I couldn't stop myself.

    I have found the system or formula that works for me, when I find myself experiencing triggered painful memories. I don't know if it would work for everyone, but it has worked successfully for me every time I have tried it in the last 15 years. This is where my healing and positive progress has come from, I am convinced.

    You are correct in stating that it takes courage and a good coping mechanism, for it most certainly does. For me, the my courage comes from knowing that I need and want to be emotionally healthy, and I want and need to stop behaving in unhealthy ways. My coping mechanism is the grieving process.

    Once I know what memory is triggered, I have to go back and face the pain of the memory. To some people, it sounds stupid to "grieve" when no one has died, but it makes perfect sense to me. At times in my young life, I was hurt so deeply, that a part of "me" died. I actually write out my thoughts and feelings about the memory that hurt me, and I go through the steps of the grieving process. It can take a few hours, a few days, a few weeks, or longer. I am the type of person who MUST have closure, so I tend to pursue it more intensely than other people might.



    ********************************************
    THE STAGES OF GRIEF
    There are several stages of grief.
    You may not go through all these stages,
    you may not experience them in this order,
    and you may experience some stages more than once.

    SHOCK OR DENIAL
    Shock is a numbness, or feeling of unreality.
    This is generally the first stage of grief that a person goes through just after a significant loss or blow.
    You may not feel much of anything.
    You may find yourself saying something like, "I can't believe this," or "This can't be happening."

    DEPRESSION
    You may not want to go anywhere, see others, or engage in normal activities.
    You may lose your interest in life, or feel that you can't go on living.
    You may struggle with difficulty concentrating, eating or sleeping too much, or not enough, and self-pity.

    GUILT
    You may find yourself feeling guilty for things you did or didn't do or say prior to the loss.
    You start saying, "Why didn't I...?" "Why did I...?" or "If only I had..."

    ANGER
    Anger at God.
    Anger at yourself.
    Anger at others.
    It may take you a while to process all your anger, especially if you were brought up in a family that didn't allow you to express bad feelings.
    When you have angry feelings, and think angry thoughts, realize that it's just a natural stage you need to pass through.
    You must express your anger in healthy ways.

    Writing down your thoughts and feelings in a journal is a great way to express anger without being judged.

    ACCEPTANCE
    Most of the pain is gone.
    You accept the fact that something bad happened.
    You forgive those who have hurt or wronged you.
    You are ready to invest yourself in life again.
    ********************************************
    Grieving Process Defined


    For me, the most important step has been forgiving the people who hurt me.
    Once I do that, they no longer have power over me.
    And even if I remember what happened,
    the memory doesn't hurt anymore.

    Afterward, I am just automatically different.
    I don't have to work at it, or think about it.
    It's like the difference between going through life with a broken arm in a cast,
    and having a healed arm with no more cast.
    Life is just easier and better.

    Did you check out the co-dependency links?

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