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  1. #121
    Senior Member rainoneventide's Avatar
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    I relate mucho. I've been talking to a counselor, so I already know where my feelings to please others originated--my parents. When I was in 5th grade, I distinctly remember my mom yelling at me, telling me that she wished I was never born and that it was my fault her and my dad were going to get divorced. So yeah, that basically sums up... everything.

    It's very hard and very tiring to gain the strength and courage to overcome these ingrained beliefs, but I've realized that I really don't want everyone to like me, anyway. I mean, imagine everyone in the whole world automatically loving you the moment they set eyes on you (that's kind of extreme, but whatever, lol). It's just... wrong.

    Also, I have always automatically assumed that everyone but me is confident and happy and generally just better off than I am, so I feel like I'm worthless and not worth their time. But I've realized that most people have the same feelings of insecurity that I have. So if I concentrate on that and less on myself, socializing becomes a lot less stressful--it makes me realize that everyone is on the same level. I am seeing someone and automatically judging them even though I haven't taken the time to know them, and they are most likely doing the same to me. I dunno, I just think that's comforting for some reason.
    "So I say, live and let live. Thatís my motto. Live and let live.
    Anyone who canít go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker."
    - George Carlin

  2. #122
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    I think I have a reaction formation.

    I unconsciously expect people to reject me so I beat them to the punch and reject them first.

    However as Heart has pointed out, I am a cunning fox so I don't reject people verbally but rather I reject them emotionally.

    So most people don't respond to what I say, but how I make them feel. And I make them feel rejected so they show me how they feel by rejecting me and so validate my expectation. It's a perfect vicious circle.

    And unfortunately for me, people remember how you make them feel, not what you say to them.

    Luckily and painfully my feelings of rejection are moving from my unconscious to my conscious. So I have less need to act out in order to make my feelings conscious. And so I will have less need to make you feel bad. And in return you will be less provoked to make me feel bad.

    And at this point I can't help thinking of Richard Nixon who said, "You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore", but who didn't add, "because I am not going to kick you around anymore".

  3. #123
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    You can be hit and miss, lukewarm, cold, bitchy, bastardy, confronting, pleasant, unpleasant, trustful, distrustful, misunderstood, understood, tasteful, in bad taste and that's just life.

    Shit Happens
    A lot more than not
    Assumptions are like a coffee grater's best friend.

    Likeability isnít so much to do with pleasing or displeasing anybody else. Its about having respect for the boundary of another, its about having confidence and assertion for yourself as well as outwardly showing that you have belief and are genuine and consistent in the way you behave and treat others.

    While it is said that it takes the first 5-10 seconds of a person to form an impression whether you are going to be liked or disliked. I think that is only true for the initial impression, it is what happens after the impression that will demonstrate whether the likability or dislike of the persona happens based on common interests, connections, experiences, differences and the like.

    Its like with my brother, the more I please him the more he wants, the more he wants the more disrespect I receive. Which is bad mkay, when you can assert your will speak your mind, have voice and say what you are all about without wanting to please then this will be respected. When you stop having a voice and choose to stay a doormat without realizing your giving away your power, then its going to be difficult to restore confidence and self esteem.

    Absent in the wake of wanting or wanting in the wake of absence, rejection is feedback at its best because there is only experience from failure and experience from failure is feedback from rejection.

    Core beliefs are such that the emotional wants started from the people closest to us and the people closest to us created insecurity because they hurt us the most then the ideas are expressed outwardly and measured according to past experience.

  4. #124
    Member dani_elle's Avatar
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    I can relate to this, and I think it has much to do with self-loathing of some sort.

    I've long gotten over it. It was painful, I admit. But I've learnt my lesson. Remember, like attracts like. Won't you rather have others that fit you be attracted to you rather than trying to mold yourself to fit in with others? Just a thought.

    Nowadays, my modus operandi is to get a "feel" of what other people are about and figure whether we can get along in the long run. If not, I will be polite, distant but friendly. You know, just get along with them but I don't see a need to get close. For one, I can't handle small minded people so I usually respectfully try to stay away from a negative influence.

    Being a perpetual giver will lead to you being taken advantage of if the respect ain't mutual. It won't lead you to being liked as well if you're doing it for the sake of wanting to fit in.

    Now, to be honest : would I like to be admired?

    Yes, but I would want to be admired for a quality I possess and not the image I'm trying to mold myself into.
    I am an ENFP but I value justice over mercy.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Liminality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

    Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.
    *late* I can so relate to this...

    Sorry if you mention this later, there's alot of thread and little time for me online left today...

    Can you relate to the sense that you're always being watched, inside and out? That the people around you can see in/listen to your mind, sometimes your thoughts get very 'loud', or maybe that the room gets filled with them?

    A good few years back I had horrific social anxiety outside my small group of friends, I had to throw myself in the deep end (my mum did really). She got me to go on this trip alone - to a sort of art camp, but with no one I knew, then we went to Spain, where I met two girls I'd not seen in about 7 years.

    I'm now merely somewhat shy, and kinda bad one to one.
    Come along Fool
    A direct hit of the senses you are disconnected
    It's not that it's bad, it's not that it's death
    It's just on the tip of your tongue, and you're so silent

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

    Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.
    There is a connection between wanting people to like you and rejecting negative thoughts about them. Your brain demands that you match your actions to your beliefs and vice-versa. If you go by the rule that acceptance is good and judgement is evil, you will feel hypocritical for failing to live up to your own standards. I'm stuck in a similar situation and don't consider myself "cured" at this moment. I'm also looking for acceptance, but I tend to react in a prickly hedgehog manner. Over the years, I've refined my thinking.

    Wanting acceptance is a natural human impulse. But getting everybody to validate you is impossible, also, unecessary to your well-being. Some people will aggressively defend their ego from any perceived attacks. They define so strongly with the self that anything "other" is quickly rejected. Some contort themselves to fit external expectations. They define their "self" in accordance to what "others" find acceptable.

    Aggressively egostic people will find acceptance for "being who they are", but might earn a reputation for unecessary abrasiveness. Accomodating people will find acceptance for being "understanding", but might be criticised for being "spineless or hypocritical". I think the difference between them is minimal.

    People will accept you, if they can identify with any part of your personality. If you project a witty image, people who identify with intelligence, will identify with you. If you speak in an objective manner, people who identify with reason, will identify with you. The degree of acceptance depends on the degree of identification. Thus, no matter what kind of person you are, you are bound to find some degree of acceptance.

    Relationships are like a form of social investment. Everyone has a limited amount of time, energy and love to spend on others. Only our friends and family members truly matter to our well-being. We select friends on the basis of identification. We have less of a choice regarding relatives, so empathy and reciprocation is the best way to maintain cordiality. As for the rest, basic courtesy and humanity, because we remain a member of the human race. This means not doing things that will devastate others, even if it is of no direct consequence to us. Gaining 100% approval is a statistical impossibility, so I remind myself not to expend out of proportional efforts in that direction.

    Basically, this is my categorization of people.
    Last edited by krunchtime; 11-09-2009 at 10:17 PM.

  7. #127
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    That's really interesting, I wouldn't say I "monitor my thoughts to avoid rupturing relationships" (because I have very strong thoughts and values despite who's around me) but when I'm in a group of people who are either strangers or aquaintences (people who aren't good friends) I too feel very self-concsious and I act introverted because I'm afriad people won't like me if I say the wrong thing (because even if I don't consider these people potential friends I don't want them to dislike me). I know you said "no type talk" but this always suprised me about myself because I'm usually a huge extrovert around friends and people I know.

    I'm not sure how to "get over this", but I know that I personally started acting this way after being in a group setting when I was younger in which everyone seemed to dislike me. Therefore I thought if I said less around these people then they would have less reason to hate me. I really don't like acting fake, so I wouldn't change myself (or thoughts) to fit others, but it's an awful feeling when everyone in a group hates you, so in an effort to avoid these situations in the future I decided to keep quiet around non-friends in general. It might not be the best solution because it's made me self-consious about talking to strangers, but introverts are quiet in general, so I don't see too much harm in acting introverted around strangers.

    Another thing you and I have in common is that I try not to think badly about people, but I try not to think badly about my good friends, because I feel like judgement only leads to animosity (unless it's a problem I plan on discussing with them to their face). When it comes to strangers I also try not to judge them until I get to know them, but that's not because I'm "supposed" to like them. Even if I hear a rumor about someone I try not to think badly about them before I meet them because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are good people unless they prove otherwise to me.

    I'm not sure if this was helpful, but I think it's interesting that we display similar bahaviors, yet it seems like we have different intentions motivating them.

  8. #128
    Senior Member HollyGolightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

    Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.

    I haven't read through the whole thread because I'm so eager to reply because this strikes such a chord so sorry if I am repeating what other people have said.
    I had a similar problem, I still have it to some degree. I felt that I didn't deserve to share this planet with everyone else and that I had to earn my right to be here. I desperately wanted to be loved, to please, to be perfect.
    The way I got over it was when I got a huge smack in the face. Somebody really hurt me, well a lot of people did actually. It hurt so much I thought I was going to die, I even prayed that whoever was up there would take me in my sleep. But I came through it, and the realisation hit me.
    I can do everything right, but not everyone will like me. And they have every right not to like me. I mean, I don't like EVERYONE else...and it's not always because they've done something wrong. It's not their fault and it's not my fault...we're just not meant to be best buddies.
    Fear of faliure can be over powering. I felt like I was failing other people if I was perfect, if I wasn't pleasing. It goes back to what I said in the previous paragraph. I think it's mainly to do with self esteem and lack of self acceptance. Everybody has flaws. I actually find people with flaws more attractive than people who come across "perfect" all the time. We're all human and we are designed to mess up sometimes. If you don't mess up you will never learn, which means you can't possibly get anything out of life. If there was no such thing as faliure we would never truly know what success was.
    Don't be so hard on yourself. The fact that you care so much about how other people feel shows you are an awesome person anyways. You're allowed to mess up sometimes
    "Dad I can't feel my legs."

    "That's because you don't have any arms."

  9. #129
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    It's not if people like you, it's if you like them =)

    There are lots of people out there, and if you think or know one or some don't like you, be like whatever and move on, there are other people more worthy of your time.

  10. #130
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    I had that same problem when I was a teenager.

    It all changed when I started to like myself. Once you accept yourself for who you are, and get to LOVE yourself, people start doing the same.

    Tried and true, I have many people who admire me for being authentic ("what you see is what you get"). Pretending to be something you are not will make you seem fake to other people, and thatīs not a proper way to make them like you.

    And, you canīt live playing a character for your whole life. Accepting, and being yourself (with all the good and bad things), will also save your mental health from collapsing.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



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