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  1. #111
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    I haven't read the whole thread but the title got me to think. I'm going to comment on this in a general way, and the following might be, let's say not very popular, but here you go.

    Something I keep on hearing and reading around me and in these sort of forums is the general sentiment of "Who cares what others think? Be happy in your own way!". I contend that while this view has some merit, it has a deep flaw: it antagonizes other people. Simply put, no, you're not going to be very happy if you take that as your mantra. The reason is simple: Deep down, we all have a wish of confirmation, affirmation -- that someone comes along and says, "I relate!". If not this, it is, at the very least, acknowledgment that we seek. I don't care if MBTI says that you're 120% introverted, to be honest, as MBTI, if you haven't noticed by now, serves to feed you this same thing on a platter.

    Now this has nothing to do with the affirmation along the lines of "aww *hug* I feel for you!", or "I'm sorry for your loss.". Let's say you have a streak of misanthropy, you dislike other people. Let's say you have a blog where you air your (coherent, intelligent; not blind hate) views. Is this an uncommon scenario? Probably not. If I were to ask you why you blogged, you'd probably answer with something around the "To explore my mind's depths; to voice my thoughts in a purified medium" area. But no, my friends, it's more than that; you blog because you want *someone* to just happen his/her way into the blog, read the tendrils of your mind, and (vocally) agree with you. And even if that someone (vocally) disagrees with you, if you made them think, to consider your idea, then you're successful, you've been acknowledged. You could say that we're all posting here for the same reasons. I know I'll be the first one to admit it.

    And this is why the "Don't you mind other people!" advice falls flat. Chances are, no, you can't do that. What you can do is to first try to act genuinely, at least in your understanding of "genuine", and then gauge the reactions, instead of trying it the other way. Trust me, it becomes a whole lot easier if you just act, (I don't mean this as in "improvise the hell out!", as that's a seperate talent, I mean this as in "do not moderate your thoughts preemptively"). Some people will always think you're a fuckwit, but there's a good chance that if you're genuine, someone will eventually pick that up and reward you with the attention and the affirmation you, and all of us with you, crave deep down. And the ultimate reward will be remembrance.
    Not really.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I agree with you Nadir.

    Still, "Who cares what others think? Be happy in your own way!" is something that people should bear in mind, even if it's not very effective sometimes, since it's actually easier for others to like you if you already like yourself (confidence). Provided you don't step on their toes too often.

  3. #113
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i care what others think in that i want them to have an accurate picture. i want them to not prejudge or make assumptions and then if we don't get along that's fine as long as it's genuine and accurate. i pretty much have zero desire to be friendly with someone who doesn't appreciate me for who i am.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #114
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    i care what others think in that i want them to have an accurate picture. i want them to not prejudge or make assumptions and then if we don't get along that's fine as long as it's genuine and accurate. i pretty much have zero desire to be friendly with someone who doesn't appreciate me for who i am.
    +1 but too often the people that do not appreciate you, do so coz they don't know you and judge you based on false presumptions. And that's very frustrating, especially as you know they won't accept any explanation. It's a done deal for them. Even worse is when it's a person you yourself respect and look up to.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #115
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    I want people to like me, insofar as they have some impact on my personal life. But I try not to put on false fronts. If someone doesn't like me for me, I don't really care to know them either.

    On a professional level I would prefer to be respected or feared first. If someone likes me as well, that's fine, but I don't go looking for it.

    Oh, as an afterthought, when dealing with a bureaucracy such as the DMV, or other government organization. I put on my fake smile and try to be as friendly as possible. Since all it would take is one wrong keystroke to make my life hell.

  6. #116
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread but the title got me to think. I'm going to comment on this in a general way, and the following might be, let's say not very popular, but here you go.

    Something I keep on hearing and reading around me and in these sort of forums is the general sentiment of "Who cares what others think? Be happy in your own way!". I contend that while this view has some merit, it has a deep flaw: it antagonizes other people. Simply put, no, you're not going to be very happy if you take that as your mantra. The reason is simple: Deep down, we all have a wish of confirmation, affirmation -- that someone comes along and says, "I relate!". If not this, it is, at the very least, acknowledgment that we seek. I don't care if MBTI says that you're 120% introverted, to be honest, as MBTI, if you haven't noticed by now, serves to feed you this same thing on a platter.

    Now this has nothing to do with the affirmation along the lines of "aww *hug* I feel for you!", or "I'm sorry for your loss.". Let's say you have a streak of misanthropy, you dislike other people. Let's say you have a blog where you air your (coherent, intelligent; not blind hate) views. Is this an uncommon scenario? Probably not. If I were to ask you why you blogged, you'd probably answer with something around the "To explore my mind's depths; to voice my thoughts in a purified medium" area. But no, my friends, it's more than that; you blog because you want *someone* to just happen his/her way into the blog, read the tendrils of your mind, and (vocally) agree with you. And even if that someone (vocally) disagrees with you, if you made them think, to consider your idea, then you're successful, you've been acknowledged. You could say that we're all posting here for the same reasons. I know I'll be the first one to admit it.

    And this is why the "Don't you mind other people!" advice falls flat. Chances are, no, you can't do that. What you can do is to first try to act genuinely, at least in your understanding of "genuine", and then gauge the reactions, instead of trying it the other way. Trust me, it becomes a whole lot easier if you just act, (I don't mean this as in "improvise the hell out!", as that's a seperate talent, I mean this as in "do not moderate your thoughts preemptively"). Some people will always think you're a fuckwit, but there's a good chance that if you're genuine, someone will eventually pick that up and reward you with the attention and the affirmation you, and all of us with you, crave deep down. And the ultimate reward will be remembrance.
    I agree - I also find that different cultures react to me differently. More exotic cultures absolutely love me. Germans accept me in a way Americans never have...It's interesting. However, I would not don on a completely false persona just to have friends. On the other hand, it is important to be diplomatic, or else you just make life more difficult for yourself.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  7. #117
    Senior Member riel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

    Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.
    Well, I was also in your feet for a loooonngg time, though sometimes I still do that. I really hate to disappoint people because I'm afraid of the possible perceptions that they may make about me. I also was so conscious of my surroundings because I thought that every one I passed by talks about me negatively. And I was afraid of having negative thoughts of people I'm "supposed" to like because bad karma might come to me.

    So you're also asking if anyone has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/evaluation.

    Had I gotten over this?

    Yes(though sometimes I fall prey to it). Remember, NO ONE'S PERFECT(I believe you already know this).

    How did I do it?

    I accidentally read an article(or was it a psychological study?)that people are not owls on other people("very observant"-watching others' flaws and imperfections) but rather are very conscious only on themselves--of what others will think of them. So that gave me a bit of relief, but not completely. I also realized that not all people say is true; it's up to me to decide whether it's true or not, and if it is(in the case for negative criticisms), then I'll do something to improve it..and not dwell only why I did/have it.

    How I understand the need for admiration/evaluation?

    Oh, I really want to be admired very much(cough cough). I even play out people-admiring-me scenes inside my head. Like, hey, we have what we call self-worth and whether people like it or not, they derive their self-worth from other people by for example asking, "Does this look good on me?" or "Should I court her?". I just believe that the need for admiration is one of the basic human needs.
    I'm a Phlegmatic-Melancholy.

  8. #118
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

    Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.
    I think I might do something similar. I don't like disappointing people either, so I usually try to get them to lower their expectations of me, or ignore me as much as possible. If I make sure everyone is unaware of me, or expects nothing of me, I can't possibly disappoint them.

    Basically, I'm terrified of being expected to do well at something consistently, because I know I might make mistakes and people will get mad. So I just try to set things up so no one expects anything of me. The worst is when I feign confusion or ignorance to get out of it. I always feel the guiltiest for that trick later, although the other ones don't sit on my conscience.

    EDIT: Oh, I didn't see the date on this, or the length of the thread. :blushing: Sorry.

  9. #119
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    Jennifer, Zil, Wedekit- you have also had some great posts here that I can relate to.
    This has been a very fascinating discussion. I don't care how long it is, I read the whole thing. Damn good posts, everyone.

    toonia said: "People reject and fear what they do not understand." and "I end up finding people confusing and wish i could understand more... at least allows me to make sense of their experience and find a way to connect or share in it."

    This relates to what I want to say about my need to please everyone. I suppose my reasons/thinking go like this:

    "If I make them like me and go out of my way to please them, I will stay on their "good side" and therefore they will (most likely) not hurt me in some way."

    I think it comes from my feeling of disconnection with the rest of humanity. It's a deep-down, didn't-even-realize-I-had-it-for-years severe distrust of others (I actually used to think I was too trusting -Ha!). -I am afraid to let them see the real me. I hold myself back, afraid to be extremely emotionally vulnerable and have them end up hurting me.

    For those of you interested in people's motivations for such behaviors, here's my background:
    Growing up I had a very angry, controlling parent (anything could set them off) and I could never seem to do anything 'right'. It was confusing and hurt. Having the person who is the most god-like to you at that age treat you so badly and never knowing what you've done wrong (or when you did it) makes you believe irrationally (even though you know better) that *you* are always wrong or not good enough, in every way. It's hard to connect with people when you don't trust anyone deep down, because you think they could hurt you or their behavior/mood could turn on a dime at any moment.

    As an adult, I often do not think I am worthy of their love/respect/admiration. The distrust remains, and I do not let myself get *really* close to others. Keeping the people I respect/admire/love pleased is a way I get around not showing them who I really am, for fear that they will hurt me (by rejection/ridicule, mostly).

    Wow, I think I just said waaay too much about myself. Anyway, I know it's stupid, and I'm trying to work on opening up to others. Which means more saying 'no', speaking my mind and standing my ground, lonely though I fear it may be afterward.

    I would rather be my true self and, as unbelieveable as it is to me, trust, trust, trust that there's got to be *someone* out there that will accept that and won't screw me over or stab me in the heart repeatedly.

  10. #120
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    It's about balance. You can't just say "fuck everyone. I'm doing my own thing." That makes you an asshole. But what you can do is question your actions/behaviors beforehand. Am I doing this just to please said person? Or is this something that I won't budge on because of blah, blah. Basically, know yourself. Know your limits. This comes with experience. You're going to make mistakes in life. But learning from those mistakes is what makes a person well rounded.

    I know exactly the place you're in because you are xNTP, I think? Basically, it's a good thing because you're reaching out to others...which doesn't come naturally for NT's. Question is: how much do you reach out without losing yourself...very tough! I'd say treat others how you'd like to be treated and judge the rest on a case by case basis. Not everyone will like you. And that's a hard thing to deal with. But you probably don't like everyone you meet either! But as long as you're true to yourself and treat others respectfully, even though you don't get along...you're good as gold and the stronger person for it!
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

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