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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Did you really just say negro music? Yeah sure you're totally Gen Y, you aren't 72 at all.
    Well well, look who is stereotyping people now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I think I am starting to feel the problem with you. As an INTJ your inner SFP wants to be retro and hip and your Te took a nosedive somewhere in racist sexist backwoods squaresville. Next time try a little more Sam Spade and a lot less Archie Bunker.
    It looks like you have no idea what my music tastes are either. All these assumptions are comic relief and show how low you have gone.

    Just to spell it out for everybody's benefit: @Marmotini's last few posts to me in various threads show a concerted attempt to caricature and dehumanise. It is a typical leftist tactic to denigrate the opponent as an "other" to discourage others from listening. The irony is that this is exactly what those like her accuse me of doing: categorising people. The difference is that while I categorise people based on biological realities my enemies categorise them based on their views. One is concrete, the other is abstract. I'll leave you all to decide which matters more.

    And as for "racist sexist backwoods squareville"...




    Both of these places are only 30 mins away from my house. Suck on it.

  2. #52
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    My ISTP was explaining it to me his way, that I thought might hold weight. He has a book called Pronoia or something like that but basically it disputes our culture of paranoia with facts and one of the biggest things is how strongly the.murder rate has gone down as humans have progressed, we are much less likely to be murdered than our ancestors and he was talking about how people mostly are smart enough to focus their violence into things like sports and movies and S/M or whatever but some people just aren't and they would have been warriors 500 years ago but now they're lost in the parking lot of life and feel confined so shoot people in schools and airports.

    I honestly thought he was making a lot of sense. I mean christ I.used to walk off of school campus alone so I wouldn't snap and hit some one or start crying.
    I'm not sure I entirely agree with your boyfriend. Although I do think there is a lot of violence within humanity, (but largely as a reaction to the conditions of the environment around them and their approach to that/stresses on a personal level as well as our evolution), I don't think it can be excused as "oh they are just natural warriors". What's wrong with boxing, martial arts? Even cage fighting? Etc.... Are those too structured for the warriors of the world? When talking of being smart enough, what IS smart enough? I can see it was more of a cursory delve into that aspect of our nature but even so I can't even take that at a holistic level because it's more reasonable to inspect a persons background, influences and biology.

    I do agree, though, with the idea of western civilization not necessarily being our natural habitat although I find it hard to pinpoint anything as being our natural habitat, given the influence of environment and our evolution. At one point it appeared natural for our ancestors to kill and cannibalise other species of homo, perhaps that is more natural for us? What I see around me are lots of conflicting idealisms and like the forces of nature at some point something has to give way to a superior force and it results in one idealism being trampled underfoot by the proponents of another.

    What is true is that given the right pressures, circumstances and triggers I could easily become a mass murderer, (as could many others), although I'd like to pretend I am mentally strong enough to recognise such influences as they arise. But the irrational component of our psyche's appear to me, to have more sway and power than the rational ever could.

    We're basically a collective reaction, endlessly trying to rationalise after the action.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #53
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    ?

    Violence seems pretty cross-cultural.

    Have people never followed a news story that takes place outside of the U.S. before? Read about history?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  4. #54
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    The difference is that while I categorise people based on biological realities my enemies categorise them based on their views. One is concrete, the other is abstract. I'll leave you all to decide which matters more.
    One is within an individual's ability to control; the other is simply luck of the draw, and we are stuck with. I for one prefer to be judged by my choices than my biology.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I'm not sure I entirely agree with your boyfriend. Although I do think there is a lot of violence within humanity, (but largely as a reaction to the conditions of the environment around them and their approach to that/stresses on a personal level as well as our evolution), I don't think it can be excused as "oh they are just natural warriors". What's wrong with boxing, martial arts? Even cage fighting? Etc.... Are those too structured for the warriors of the world? When talking of being smart enough, what IS smart enough? I can see it was more of a cursory delve into that aspect of our nature but even so I can't even take that at a holistic level because it's more reasonable to inspect a persons background, influences and biology.

    I do agree, though, with the idea of western civilization not necessarily being our natural habitat although I find it hard to pinpoint anything as being our natural habitat, given the influence of environment and our evolution. At one point it appeared natural for our ancestors to kill and cannibalise other species of homo, perhaps that is more natural for us? What I see around me are lots of conflicting idealisms and like the forces of nature at some point something has to give way to a superior force and it results in one idealism being trampled underfoot by the proponents of another.

    What is true is that given the right pressures, circumstances and triggers I could easily become a mass murderer, (as could many others), although I'd like to pretend I am mentally strong enough to recognise such influences as they arise. But the irrational component of our psyche's appear to me, to have more sway and power than the rational ever could.

    We're basically a collective reaction, endlessly trying to rationalise after the action.
    He actually used to box competitively so I am.sure he would actually agree with you, as do I since I enjoy bloody Rob Zombie films (one of my favorite scenes in any movie ever is when she goes primal and kills Mike Myers at the end of Zombies Halloween)...most normal people find a sane outlet for aggression, it could be something as unrelated as hard exercise like running, or slapping someone during sex. But we REALLY are under a lot of structural control now as a society and I duck it as much as humanly possible ...some people can't take it and something is wrong, whether we call it stupid or mentally ill. In my opinion there also seems to be misguided sense of entitlement involved in public rampages, like oh.poor little serial killer...but you know it was easier to get away with murder as recently as the early 80s.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Well well, look who is stereotyping people now...



    It looks like you have no idea what my music tastes are either. All these assumptions are comic relief and show how low you have gone.

    Just to spell it out for everybody's benefit: @Marmotini's last few posts to me in various threads show a concerted attempt to caricature and dehumanise. It is a typical leftist tactic to denigrate the opponent as an "other" to discourage others from listening. The irony is that this is exactly what those like her accuse me of doing: categorising people. The difference is that while I categorise people based on biological realities my enemies categorise them based on their views. One is concrete, the other is abstract. I'll leave you all to decide which matters more.

    And as for "racist sexist backwoods squareville"...




    Both of these places are only 30 mins away from my house. Suck on it.
    Two things:

    1) no thanks. I already have plenty of that.

    2) the term negro music went south to poor taste before Kennedy was assassinated, grow up

  7. #57
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    He actually used to box competitively so I am.sure he would actually agree with you, as do I since I enjoy bloody Rob Zombie films (one of my favorite scenes in any movie ever is when she goes primal and kills Mike Myers at the end of Zombies Halloween)...most normal people find a sane outlet for aggression, it could be something as unrelated as hard exercise like running, or slapping someone during sex. But we REALLY are under a lot of structural control now as a society and I duck it as much as humanly possible ...some people can't take it and something is wrong, whether we call it stupid or mentally ill. In my opinion there also seems to be misguided sense of entitlement involved in public rampages, like oh.poor little serial killer...but you know it was easier to get away with murder as recently as the early 80s.
    Well you've hit on something here that has been on my mind for a long time. It seems as if everything happens like it's a giant chemical reaction to an event and it doesn't have to be singular, it can be any event you can think of, in this context though I'm thinking of events in human history. Elements get pushed together in our species' own personal pressure cooker and then it all becomes a massive explosion of activity. Usually this results in a change or shift from one state to another.

    But when it dies down an external structure often comes up to give security to people after the event. It's because it's comfortable and I think we often mistake external security for internal security, or assume having the external means we will have the other. But too much of that structure, as you said, is stifling. It essentially bores people into activity again.

    True there are other motivations as well, of course there are, idealistically and physically and security based again but not status quo as much as basic stability of land conquest or possession. What bothers me more, however, is there are a lot of people for whom the external human structure is the only real guiding force in their considerations.

    Think of Lord of The Flies, that division between those individuals who were able to reason or rather rationalise their understanding of what morality is, of what a society is and a better understanding of it's structure, where it can fail and where it can succeed and whether or not it is a trap for molding people to what suits it or if it is a necessary framework for stability, (and all the lovely grey in between). And those who just drop all pretence of those aspects because the external structure is removed.

    At the end of the book when the navel officer discovers these kids, that's what they become; just kids. The social structure is instantly imposed upon them in their minds and for those who forgot the external structure; suddenly things are back to 'normal'.

    On some level I think most people are aware of this danger, but rather than recognising it as a lack of internal structure, or rather internal considerations of aspects that question a status quo and the questioner's place within them, they believe the answer is more external structure and more control. But that just intensifies the problem.

    So you end up with the pressure cooker on a micro-scale individual level, because besides the problems that this person faces, you also see the issue with not being given the space to expand and express on internal considerations.

    Meh but that's just my theory.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #58
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Is violence so prevalent in Western culture? We can only know by comparison with other cultures such as Indian culture, Chinese culture, and Islamic culture.

    And violence against women and against lower castes in India far exceeds violence in Western culture.

    And violence against dissent in China far exceeds violence in Western culture.

    And violence in Islamic culture is orders of magnitude greater than in Western culture.

    So we can conclude that in Western culture, under Common Law and liberal democracy, violence is relatively less prevalent.

  9. #59
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    I don't think it is something only to Western society... but rather just plain old over crowding. Too many people making trouble, causes anger. (fighting over territory, you know)

    But this guy did a study on it, John B. Calhoun. Further reading for more detail by reading this: Behavioral sink.

    Oh and this too Genetics of aggression

  10. #60
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Life expectancy has gone up, violence has gone down, most of the world over. Excepting war zones.

    The types of sensational crimes televised and otherwise media circus-ized may have changed a little... and have more exposure.

    This is for a number of reasons... often because people want to show their pain to the world, they want to make a mark, a statement... and they want others to see how they feel. Often they are neglected, bullied, abused and desperate to be heard.

    That these things receive such coverage successfully fuels others desires.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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