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  1. #1
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    Default How Much Do You Identify With Your Circumstances?

    How much does your sex/gender, national origin or race factor into your sense of identity? If you hypothetically woke up in a different body that is not in your current state, how much would it effect your self-perception and identity? Would your values drastically change? I suppose you could include class or socioeconomic status, but that would probably have the most profound effect on one's lifestyle.

    I believe I've always identified myself more by my interests and aspirations than anything out of my control. If my gender or national origin was different, it may have a positive impact on my life (due to cultural values clashing with my personality). I think being a different race would have the biggest effect in a negative way, as a result of prejudices and the stigma attached to belonging to a minority. I've never had a strong desire to adopt a group identity. Even when participating in activities that I enjoy with people of similar interests, I have a certain aversion to assimilating into a defined association.

    When I see people who fervently identify with their sex, race, or national origin, I get the feeling they are lacking in any real, deep sense of personal identity; especially when they subtly or blatantly indicate how much better their sex, race or country is.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    How much does your sex/gender, national origin or race factor into your sense of identity? If you hypothetically woke up in a different body that is not in your current state, how much would it effect your self-perception and identity? Would your values drastically change? I suppose you could include class or socioeconomic status, but that would probably have the most profound effect on one's lifestyle.

    I believe I've always identified myself more by my interests and aspirations than anything out of my control. If my gender or national origin was different, it may have a positive impact on my life (due to cultural values clashing with my personality). I think being a different race would have the biggest effect in a negative way, as a result of prejudices and the stigma attached to belonging to a minority. I've never had a strong desire to adopt a group identity. Even when participating in activities that I enjoy with people of similar interests, I have a certain aversion to assimilating into a defined association.

    When I see people who fervently identify with their sex, race, or national origin, I get the feeling they are lacking in any real, deep sense of personal identity; especially when they subtly or blatantly indicate how much better their sex, race or country is.
    It depends on why they identify with something, so i think in that regard your statement is a little too extreme, although the last clause there I think has some real bite to it.

    I was actually thinking a bit about it today, in terms of extreme patriotism and how in some ways it can remind me of people's rabid passion for sports teams. Typically what country you belong to and what sports teams you root for are a matter of sheer accident -- it all depends on where you were born or raised. You didn't earn it, you didn't choose it, you just randomly ended up with it. But then for some people that kind of loyalty to what was a random occurrence can lead them to blindly support their group of their allegiance while rabidly viewing critics or those belonging to other groups as enemies or deficient in some way. To me, that is tribal unity gone too far and shows some kind of blind spot or ego fragility.

    Sure, I have a natural attachment to my country of birth simply out of familiarity, and I appreciate the good things about it, but at the same time I don't necessarily see it as a perfect group/system. When it is praiseworthy, it should be praised; and when it is flawed, it should be critiqued and corrected. I can identify with it because it's mine (versus some other nationality), but one must be realistic and also understand others also are in the same boat with the groups they ended up belonging to.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Great point! The holiday was actually what inspired this thread. I appreciate July 4th for what it is and I think there are a lot of good qualities about the US and its ideals, although there are plenty I disagree with, as well. Yes, sports teams are another good example.

    I don't know if it has to do with introversion or what. In some ways, I wish I integrated more easily into social groups, but I feel like it comes too much at the expense of my individuality. I played volleyball for four hours today in the sand. There was loud music and some of the people like to periodically break out into dance. One girl in particular kept booty bumping me, trying to get me to join in. As much as I appreciated the gesture...I don't dance. I have no desire to. Dancing does absolutely nothing for me. It's not even a matter of social phobia. It's like there is this extroverted energy that connects certain people and you have to be tuned into that frequency to really connect.

    I think I just veered off-topic, but the dots are connected in my head.
    Likes highlander liked this post

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    Senior Member Eluded_One's Avatar
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    Values are perpetually changing as we go. Every influence no matter how insignificant can alter one's perception on others. Although, if it's a situation when the life of the individual flipped upsidedown, it's the individual's self-perception that will be changing this time around. Mainly because it's on a more personal level.

    While some of us seem invariable with the changing of the times, that is also in itself an acquired value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    When I see people who fervently identify with their sex, race, or national origin, I get the feeling they are lacking in any real, deep sense of personal identity; especially when they subtly or blatantly indicate how much better their sex, race or country is.
    They may identify with their inherited state of being with much dignity, however, the underlying motive in their excessive pride is only an excuse to think themselves as faultless, and other times superior. It gives them a sense of identity, not much different than what we give ourselves; perhaps, for example, more distinct qualities such as tolerance and sympathy. But I do agree on one part of the message you're conveying, some people do try much harder than others.
    “If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.” -anonymous

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    ^ Sure, people's values change over time. And I would say that if a person never evolves, they probably haven't spent much time contemplating their values. It just seems lazy and weak-minded for a person to be a xerox copy of the values their environment impresses upon them. Of course, to some extent, everyone is influenced by their circumstances. I'm not saying there is any virtue in being a rebel without a cause and defying the mainstream simply to create some sort of counterculture identity.

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    My identity is very complex and, perhaps being a Thinker, it is tough for me to probe myself internally to figure out exactly what it is.

    The majority of it is to do with me as an individual, my personal struggles and difficulties which I still have to deal with, and my faint but still existing hope that I will one day triumph and be able to fulfill my dreams. The combination of emotional intensity, anger and calculation that I have would make me very dangerous if I lost my reasons for being afraid. I know that I am different to other people, something I simultaneously enjoy and loathe. I feel chained from going out and moulding the world to my image (which I see as my purpose). I am defined by who I am, what I feel my potential is and how I'm unable to reach it. I feel like a prisoner chained to a stone chair on the top of the mountain, able to see everything but unable to change any of it. My gender wouldn't matter much if I wasn't constantly consumed by sexual thoughts, its no secret that I seriously need a fuck. So that's so 80% of my identity.

    Sea of Fi right there. Ugh.

    The other 20% of my identity, which I talk about more because it's directed outward and less personal, is tied to the land I was raised in - I feel a strong connection to the rivers and mountains, the rolling peneplain, and the forests. My family played a big part in making this country, so I feel that this is my home. I enjoy visiting other countries, and have seen a lot of the world, but I'd be reluctant to live in all but two or three of the countries I've been to and would never want to raise a family anywhere but here. My dislike of foreigners primarily comes from my repugnance and fury at the thought of interracial relationships and the desire for my future children not to be a minority in the country their ancestors had a hand in building.

    That answer your questions OP?

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    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I think i'd still be me

    but i actually thought about this. I don't belong to any pride movements, because I don't need to and for that i'm grateful. I don't sit around going oh I'm a white straight american female and i'm proud. I'm just another cog in the box and those things aren't what make me me. what makes me me is my thoughts and actions not my census info. and I think if people paid more attention to other people's thoughts and actions and got to them on that level vs their census info the world would be a better place f/fi. what i'm trying to say opressing someone or taking away their rights because of census info is a dick thing to do and if that happens it should be because they killed someone not because of who they according to some card that has your race, gender, sex orientation, country of origin, age, ect on it
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #8
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    My dislike of foreigners primarily comes from my repugnance and fury at the thought of interracial relationships and the desire for my future children not to be a minority in the country their ancestors had a hand in building.
    Like the Maori?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Like the Maori?
    Yes. There has been a lot of myth-making about the Maori being indigenous since identity politics started in the 70s. In reality they killed the indigenous people of New Zealand, who themselves didn't ever colonise a good deal of country. The Maoris have been in NZ around the same time that, for example, the Turks have in Anatolia. The Turks now claim to be indigenous despite European type peoples living in the area for thousands of years before them, up until the expulsion of the Greeks post WWI...

    I only state the fact that my family played a part in making NZ a unified political entity, a country. Despite this, I have said before on the forum that I would be happy to move to Europe if all the non European people currently living there left. But that's not happening anytime soon so I don't feel like a hypocrite, especially seeing i have a lot more connection to where I live than they do to Europe.

    FTR: A good deal of NZ wasn't inhabited until 1855 on, when the gold rushes started.

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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I think i'd still be me

    but i actually thought about this. I don't belong to any pride movements, because I don't need to and for that i'm grateful. I don't sit around going oh I'm a white straight american female and i'm proud. I'm just another cog in the box and those things aren't what make me me. what makes me me is my thoughts and actions not my census info.
    Or the stats I generate at work, LOL. They don't see people, I'm just a number, less even than a cog.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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