How Much Do You Identify With Your Circumstances?

[Bullet]

I know a lot more about my heritage than you clearly do, and I am proud of it. That it would influence my identity shouldn't be surprising.

I wish to influence who my descendants will be, because I want my grandchildren to look like me and not some drug dealer from Africa.

And you're clearly a better person for it.

What if they look like drug dealers from New Zealand? Aside from attire and possible physical signs of drug use, how do drug dealers from New Zealand look different from non-drug dealers from New Zealand? If you had to choose, would you rather your grandchildren look like drug dealers from New Zealand or non-drug dealers from Africa?

 

[Kullervo]

What if they look like a drug dealer from New Zealand? Aside from attire and possible physical sign of drug use, how does a drug dealer from New Zealand look different from a non-drug dealer from New Zealand? If you had to choose, would you rather your grandchildren look like drug dealers from New Zealand or non-drug dealers from Africa?

A drug dealer from New Zealand, because behaviour is easier to change than genes.

 

[Bullet]

A drug dealer from New Zealand, because behaviour is easier to change than genes.

I'm not sure what you mean. By changing genes, are you referring to interracial copulation? If so, I would imagine that's easier than changing behaviors or racist attitudes. Old habits die hard. And if your identity is so reliant upon these beliefs, well...that's like a character transplant.

 

[Kullervo]

I'm not sure what you mean. By changing genes, are you referring to interracial copulation? If so, I would imagine that's easier than changing behavior or racist attitudes. Old habits die hard.

You can't change the genes you are born with to the extent we are talking about (yet - that may change in the future), whereas behaviour is, at least to some extent, learned. I actually have one cousin who was a drug addict for five years, she reformed due to pressure and now lives a normal life.

Just one mixed breeding event is damage that may take ten generations to wash out. I will have clauses in my will that any descendants who engage in such activity will be disinherited.

Comparing these two things is ridiculous.

 

[Bullet]

You can't change the genes you are born with to the extent we are talking about (yet - that may change in the future), whereas behaviour is, at least to some extent, learned. I actually have one cousin who was a drug addict for five years, she reformed due to pressure and now lives a normal life.

Just one mixed breeding event is damage that may take ten generations to wash out. I will have clauses in my will that any descendants who engage in such activity will be disinherited.

But they won't inherit your good name and outstanding reputation. That's kind've harsh for a member of your sacred progeny.

 

[Bullet]

If we didn't have interracial breeding, there would be no Liger. Think about that. Do you really want to live in a world without ligers?

 

[Oaky]

I identify very little with my circumstances. My being and 'self' is fairly separate from my body. If I was a female, it would not matter to me. But I tend to adapt to my circumstances as to which I believe I only feel male because my body is what I want to adapt to. The majority of the time I have no 'feeling' of male but only of myself and only adhere to it when necessary. This is the same as my other external situations. (race, nationality) While it may be different to other people, I also feel like I can adapt my sexual orientation too if the external circumstances and flow provides it.

 

[Beorn]

You can't change the genes you are born with to the extent we are talking about (yet - that may change in the future), whereas behaviour is, at least to some extent, learned. I actually have one cousin who was a drug addict for five years, she reformed due to pressure and now lives a normal life.

Just one mixed breeding event is damage that may take ten generations to wash out. I will have clauses in my will that any descendants who engage in such activity will be disinherited.

Comparing these two things is ridiculous.

So if your descendants married into the white family you would be cool with that, but not with marrying into an elite african family?

This is fine:

This is not:

 

[Rasofy]

“Whatsoever a man is, is due to his make, and to the influences brought to bear upon it by his heredities, his habitat, his associations. He is moved, directed, commanded, by exterior influences—solely. He originates nothing, not even a thought.”

-Mark Twain

 

[renaiziphonts]

I always identified with heavily with circumstance, but a different kind. More "adversary". I've been diagnosed with ADhD, Autism, Bipolar Disorder and Dyslexia. Synesthesia too, so I saw the world in a way nobody else did. They could all have theirs, but my world was mine. I may have been cursed with disabilities, but I drew strength from them.
When I got off my medication last year -I needed it for ADhD, but it was ruining my life -the rest of my problems went away. I'm not sure if they were caused or worsened by the medication, but by the time I was detoxed, I was stricken with a crippling bout of normalcy. The world i had made for myself was gone, and now I have to live in everyone else's.

I still haven't told nearly any of my friends that though. I'm still gonna pretend to have my circumstance, because it was my identity.

 

[Coriolis]

In everyday life, these kinds of things do matter the most. I have never said that biological group associations are the only thing that differentiates you from (or you have in common with) someone else. But because it is a part of you, active rejection is a form of self hatred no different than if you were ashamed of another part of your identity.

Not at all. Hatred is an emotion. Choosing to focus little time and energy on one's ethnic or cultural heritage is a decision that can be based on such an emotion, or on a more reasoned consideration of one's values and interests. At some point I completely rejected the religion of my heritage. There was a period of time during which I felt very resentful toward it for many reasons. Now that I have moved on and found the spirituality right for me, I can view it in a much more neutral or even positive light, though I still reject it for myself.

If you enjoy this, then you have at least one reason for preserving the people who this culture belongs to. Its destiny is tied to ours.

It makes more sense to preserve the culture than the people. Often the two go hand in hand, but the world is full of ethnic groups who have lost their cultural traditions. Ensuring that those populations continue won't bring back the lost languages and practices. People not native to the culture, however, can and do sometimes take an interest in it, and contribute significantly to its preservation and promotion.

Ethnic identity is by definition non-transferable. If this was not the case, there would be no such thing as French or Japanese culture, which anyone who has been to these countries would know.

I disagree. Ethnic identity is sometimes taken on by people who marry into a different culture, or otherwise choose to become part of it (e.g. missionaries like Mother Teresa).

You misread that comment. What I meant to say here was that even if you don't identify with the group part of your identity, it still exists and needs to be taken into consideration. It is not prejudice to recognise that there are differences between people as well as similarities, and I don't apologise for being good at picking up on them.

It is prejudice to assume that, where one difference exists, others will necessariliy follow. If you see a black man, for instance, all you can conclude about him from that observation is that he is black.

So we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya then?

Sometimes that is exactly the thing to do. It's better than killing each other.

I know a lot more about my heritage than you clearly do, and I am proud of it. That it would influence my identity shouldn't be surprising.

That it influences your identity as strongly as it does is your choice, and your prerogative.

 

[Bullet]

“Whatsoever a man is, is due to his make, and to the influences brought to bear upon it by his heredities, his habitat, his associations. He is moved, directed, commanded, by exterior influences—solely. He originates nothing, not even a thought.”

-Mark Twain

I call bullshit. Humans have a free will and the choices we make will influence our circumstances. That's not to say that everything is within our control, but we're not entirely governed by outside forces. That sort of thinking absolves people of any responsibility for their actions.

 

[Rasofy]

I call bullshit. Humans have a free will and the choices we make will influence our circumstances. That's not to say that everything is within our control, but we're not entirely governed by outside forces. That sort of thinking absolves people of any responsibility for their actions.

The catch is: we can consciously choose a number of circumstances.

 

[Kullervo]

Not at all. Hatred is an emotion. Choosing to focus little time and energy on one's ethnic or cultural heritage is a decision that can be based on such an emotion, or on a more reasoned consideration of one's values and interests. At some point I completely rejected the religion of my heritage. There was a period of time during which I felt very resentful toward it for many reasons. Now that I have moved on and found the spirituality right for me, I can view it in a much more neutral or even positive light, though I still reject it for myself.

My point was that rejection of the self is a psychopathology. The self (your identity) has multiple components which I've mentioned in previous posts. From my observations, outright rejection of ethnic identity always has an emotional undercurrent, but if it didn't, I could easily show people other reasons why it is irrational. So to sum up: even if you don't identify with cultural aspects of your ethnicity, it is still a part of your biology and a way in which you are different from other people (which helps form identity: "how am i unique?").

I am an atheist for logical reasons, but if I wanted, I could find multiple ethnicity-based justifications for rejection of Christianity. I don't need them, but they exist.

It makes more sense to preserve the culture than the people. Often the two go hand in hand, but the world is full of ethnic groups who have lost their cultural traditions. Ensuring that those populations continue won't bring back the lost languages and practices. People not native to the culture, however, can and do sometimes take an interest in it, and contribute significantly to its preservation and promotion.

I disagree. Ethnic identity is sometimes taken on by people who marry into a different culture, or otherwise choose to become part of it (e.g. missionaries like Mother Teresa).

A people and their culture are tied together. If this was not the case, when the demography of a country changed its culture would remain the same. There is no reason to support your point of view on a macro level. Obsession with individualism is part of the problem; I am almost tempted to start a thread on it.

It is prejudice to assume that, where one difference exists, others will necessariliy follow. If you see a black man, for instance, all you can conclude about him from that observation is that he is black.

Traits are associated with each other; for example, statistics suggest that you are more likely to be robbed, raped or killed by a black man than a white man. Therefore it is not irrational to be more cautious in the presence of a black man than you would a white man.

Sometimes that is exactly the thing to do. It's better than killing each other.

People will always kill each other. The difference is that while my view leads to peace through war, yours leads to war through peace.

 

[Nicodemus]

The self (your identity) has multiple components which I've mentioned in previous posts. From my observations, outright rejection of ethnic identity always has an emotional undercurrent, but if it didn't, I could easily show people other reasons why it is irrational.

Would you mind explaining what the ethnic component of an identity is, perhaps by telling us about yours? I would also like to learn some of the reasons as to why it is always irrational to reject one's 'ethnic identity'.

 

[Raffaella]

Well, I have multiple citizenships but I only really relate to the most recent because I've lived here the longest - 15 years (as of today, yay, anniversary!) and whilst I do love this country, I don't identify with all parts of it - only the area I live in. I always notice how different other areas are when I move/go on road trips. I was sitting in a cafe a few days ago daydreaming and I realised that I dress like everyone here, I talk like everyone, I have their attitude toward life, - I even listen to the same music. When I compare myself to my family friends who've had similar circumstances but live in a different area to me, I realise how much I don't identify with my race, ethnicity and nationality. I tend to actually forget ethnicity most of the time unless someone asks which is why I don't volunteer that information.

As for sex, I used to identify with being a female a lot because of my gyno-centric educational background (girls' school) but not so much these days.

I do identify strongly with my interests.

 

[miss fortune]

I really don't know that it's possible to say how much influence what I am has over who I am or how I view things since I've always been me and have no experience being someone else...

I am from a mixed background, some of the national identities being associated with horrible actions and others being associated with being the victims or unwanted people... it's a background of people who weren't rich, but were generally educated above their socioeconomic status as knowledge has been stressed intergenerationally as the most important thing to gain... knowledge can get you things that you want and give you leverage. on that note, I don't look different from the majority, so no reactions based on background physically...

gender has had a bigger impact on treatment received from others than on how I have decided how I should behave. my natural behavior tendencies are more masculine, though I enjoy being a woman physically... there's occasional resistance to females behaving in certain manners, but that speaks more of the judger in that situation to me

I identify mostly with my brain and abilities... what I can do and how well I can do things definitely shape my image of myself... I know what I can do and how quickly I can figure things out and I also am fairly aware of my weak points by now and that's something that I can work with

 

[Morpeko]

I don't feel anything for my national origin and I don't understand why people ever feel proud about that. I don't think it means anything.

I don't particularly like being my race although I can appreciate several aspects about the culture in which I was raised. Do I consider it a significant part of my identity? Not really, but I do get strong feelings for the food and some of the art/music, although that may be partially due to nostalgia.

I hold active disdain toward my sex. I wish nobody identified with a gender since I think it's a very unhelpful part of society.

The idea of identifying around outer things such as this is kind of weird to me. If I were born in a different country, race, and sex, I'd like to think that the inner me is still the same person. And that's what I wish would define me rather than outsiders looking at me for how I look.