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  1. #21
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    The combination of emotional intensity, anger and calculation that I have would make me very dangerous if I lost my reasons for being afraid.
    Good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    My family played a big part in making this country, so I feel that this is my home.
    What is your family name?

  2. #22
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    I'm not convinced that you can tell so much about a person as you claim. Maybe if they have a "I'm proud to be a Texan" shirt on, you could jump to some conclusions that they openly embrace the stereotypes, but I wouldn't assume that just because someone is from Texas that they affiliate with a particular political party, enjoy cow tipping, etc... In fact, I think it's dangerous when people get carried away with stereotyping. How can you embrace this and oppose, let's say, racial profiling? It makes me think of Michael Scott. lol
    You're thinking too small though. You're saying, "Oh, they're a Texan but I won't assume they're a cowboy." Which is fair. But.. You would assume they grew up around cowboy hats and boots (which most probably did), that they grew up around republicans, that the rodeo was shown on TV, that football had a HUGE emphasis on their school most likely (there are only 3 public high schools in all of Texas that lack football of some sort), etc. etc. That doesn't mean THEY are the way they are.. but it is easy to see where they came from.

    Clearly my two attempts to emphasize "whether they're proud or rebel against" weren't clarification enough. So let me say it Barney style for you now. You can't assume someone's a cowboy. But you can assume they grew up seeing them. And that is a powerful influence either way. You know for a fact they weren't really exposed to a ton of, for example, Ugandan or Japanese culture. And they probably weren't growing up hearing the plights of France. Many Texans aren't well traveled at a young age because it takes a long, long time or serious effort to get outside of the state because it's so big. Stuff like that is influencing.. One of the reasons I wanted to travel so bad was specifically because I had never had the opportunity to before--it takes 9 hours to get to the nearest northern state to me. It's part of who I am. If I could go to 7 states in half that time, maybe I wouldn't have grown up thinking traveling was such a fancy, cool thing to do. Maybe I'd be annoyed by traveling. It's a factor.


    If you put a lot of value on tradition and acceptance and a sense of belonging then I can see why these labels and categories matter so much to you.
    It isn't me putting that emphasis there--it is society. It's bigger than just what I think. Look at how involved people are about soccer--you think they care ONLY about the sport? That kicking a ball is THAT important to people? No. There's a sense of pride in where you come from when you watch sports. That your home town did something great, created something amazing. And in a group of nations that have significantly less pride in their countries, or even see pride in their countries as taboo almost, having a safe outlet to reflect that pride is important to people.

    Like most cliques and social order, I just see it as a way for people to establish dominance over others and create some sort of hierarchy.
    I mean, you can be all hipster about it all you want. But there's more than one way to slice a cake--just because you see it as a negative thing doesn't make it so. I think raspberries are disgusting (because I'm completely unbiased and also allergic) but that doesn't mean raspberries are at all bad.

    I'm grateful that I live in the US. I think it's probably one of the best countries in the world to live in for various reasons, but I view my citizenship here as merely circumstantial. It doesn't add value to me, as a person, in any way.
    But that's exactly where you're wrong. You grew up with an education--provided for you. You grew up in an age of technology, with access to computers, you grew up learning english, and speaking english. You grew up in the state you're in, exposed to the people you were.. the weather, the environment. It all plays a huge, heavy hand in who you are. Maybe you don't define yourself as an American when people ask what you're about. But to deny that you are, or that that was a huge influence in your life is just denial. You're part of the same game the whole world plays whether you want to be or not.

    Even the bad stuff plays into influences. Maybe you're tired of seeing so many political battles and corruption, and so you rebel against it. But it is because you grew up seeing that in your country, and understanding the problems in your country, that you decide that. You don't just magically create identities, they're instilled in you growing up. You can rebel and redefine how you react to your environment, but it's there and a part of you whether you want it to be or not. Who you are, and how you interact with people in your life influence who they are and how they interact with others as well.

    I don't think Americans are intrinsically better than people from other countries. As far as being a male, surely testosterone has played a factor in my brain chemistry, but I think many of the traits that are often associated with masculinity are socially conditioned and reinforced.
    So you're not ethnocentric. Great. Many Americans are not. And sure, 'masculinity' is somewhat socially conditioned, but definitely not all of it. Not by a long shot. And definitely it is reinforced. But you being a male has influenced everything in your life--from the sort of bathrooms you go to instinctively, the way you learned how to love others, the way you learned how to interact with the opposite sex, the physical changes in your body, how you were bullied, what sports you played in, how you were raised and taught.. Everything is heavily influenced by gender. Because that's the way America is.

    Basically, I don't like rules, restrictions, regulations and definitions where they need not apply. I like my freedom. It don't get more Amurican than that.
    Which means you identify and define yourself as American. Great. Which is what I said. *drops mic*
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    So let me say it Barney style for you now.
    You can keep your condescending attitude. I've lost respect for you, as a person, because of your communication style. I have no interest in reading anything else you have to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Which is what I said. *drops mic*
    Take your mic with you.

  4. #24
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    It's hard to, because I don't feel like I inhabit any of them that comfortably. I never felt particularly normal growing up. I don't have that much invested in some kind of group identity, but by the same token, sometimes I do feel like people expect me to apologize for belonging to certain groups, which doesn't make sense. By the same token, my identity is sort of complicated anyway by being a mutt of sorts. But the thing is, I don't mind being a mutt. I think it helps you observe things better and take a more objective stance, which is good.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #25
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    You can keep your condescending attitude. I've lost respect for you, as a person, because of your communication style. I have no interest in reading anything else you have to say.



    Take your mic with you.
    When you're throwing words in my mouth I didn't say, yeah I'm gonna get a little snarky. I'm not trying to talk down to you.. but twice I've made that point, and you just blatantly ignored it twice. So, sure, I'll get a little sarcastic the third time around. I don't really appreciate your holier than thou "everyone who identifies as American as their foundation in life has a weak cookie cutter sense of self" attitude either--but you know what? I'll still respect you as a person.. and your communication style that is vastly different from mine.. AND your opinion and right and ability to say all of those things. Because there's more than one way to be.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    When you're throwing words in my mouth I didn't say, yeah I'm gonna get a little snarky. I'm not trying to talk down to you.. but twice I've made that point, and you just blatantly ignored it twice. So, sure, I'll get a little sarcastic the third time around. I don't really appreciate your holier than thou "everyone who identifies as American as their foundation in life has a weak cookie cutter sense of self" attitude either--but you know what? I'll still respect you as a person.. and your communication style that is vastly different from mine.. AND your opinion and right and ability to say all of those things. Because there's more than one way to be.
    I didn't put words in your mouth. We obviously have a different view on this topic, which is fine. I do think the need to have a group identity is a weakness. I show respect to individuals until they lose it. A person who has to resort to insults in a debate is usually defending a weak argument and they feel the need to belittle or dominate the other person rather than exchange ideas or agree to disagree. Your condescension wasn't an accident. It was blatant and intentional. I don't think that reflects on the environment you grew up in as much as who you are, as a person, your attitude and the world view you've chosen to adopt.

  7. #27
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    I didn't put words in your mouth. We obviously have a different view on this topic, which is fine. I do think the need to have a group identity is a weakness. I show respect to individuals until they lose it. A person who has to resort to insults in a debate is usually defending a weak argument and they feel the need to belittle or dominate the other person rather than exchange ideas or agree to disagree. Your condescension wasn't an accident. It was blatant and intentional. I don't think that reflects on the environment you grew up in as much as who you are, as a person, your attitude and the world view you've chosen to adopt.
    Says the guy that just called literally anyone patriotic ever weak in the OP. You literally threw out insults yourself--which you probably will go on to say you don't mean to be insulting.. or maybe you do, who knows.. but probably not. Yet, they're insulting/offensive in the first place. You're talking about a sensitive subject people cannot control--like gender, race, and nationality. And you're saying if they take pride in their culture, and identify with what they grew up in, that they're weak cookie cutter people. It's absolutely insulting and offensive. Yet, I didn't just assume you were some asshole dude just because you started off inflammatory.

    My *sarcasm* was definitely not an accident. I didn't know "Breaking it down Barney style" was such an insult to you though. Do you get this upset and lose all respect for a kid when he calls you a poo poo head too? It's a purple dinosaur. That said things in simpler, more plain terms. Which I did. I found it fitting, albeit definitely sarcastic.

    I'm guessing you probably didn't find my mic drop funny. Which is fine.. it made me feel a little better to make a joke out of the situation, versus .. I dunno.. being angry at how insulting your OP and posts were, and how you literally threw words into my mouth despite taking painful PC steps to make sure I was absolutely not saying that in my posts.

    Yeah, I'd say we definitely have different views on what is insulting or not. So I'll call it day here.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  8. #28
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    I didn't put words in your mouth. We obviously have a different view on this topic, which is fine. I do think the need to have a group identity is a weakness. I show respect to individuals until they lose it. A person who has to resort to insults in a debate is usually defending a weak argument and they feel the need to belittle or dominate the other person rather than exchange ideas or agree to disagree. Your condescension wasn't an accident. It was blatant and intentional. I don't think that reflects on the environment you grew up in as much as who you are, as a person, your attitude and the world view you've chosen to adopt.
    Says the guy that just called literally anyone patriotic ever weak in the OP. You literally threw out insults yourself--which you probably will go on to say you don't mean to be insulting.. or maybe you do, who knows.. but probably not. Yet, they're insulting/offensive in the first place. You're talking about a sensitive subject people cannot control--like gender, race, and nationality. And you're saying if they take pride in their culture, and identify with what they grew up in, that they're weak cookie cutter people. It's absolutely insulting and offensive. Yet, I didn't just assume you were some asshole dude just because you started off inflammatory.

    My *sarcasm* was definitely not an accident. I didn't know "Breaking it down Barney style" was such an insult to you though. Do you get this upset and lose all respect for a kid when he calls you a poo poo head too? It's a purple dinosaur. That said things in simpler, more plain terms. Which I did. I found it fitting, albeit definitely sarcastic.

    I'm guessing you probably didn't find my mic drop funny. Which is fine.. it made me feel a little better to make a joke out of the situation, versus .. I dunno.. being angry at how insulting your OP and posts were, and how you literally threw words into my mouth despite taking painful PC steps to make sure I was absolutely not saying that in my posts.

    Yeah, I'd say we definitely have different views on what is insulting or not. So I'll call it day here.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Says the guy that just called literally anyone patriotic ever weak in the OP. You literally threw out insults yourself--which you probably will go on to say you don't mean to be insulting.. or maybe you do, who knows.. but probably not. Yet, they're insulting/offensive in the first place. You're talking about a sensitive subject people cannot control--like gender, race, and nationality. And you're saying if they take pride in their culture, and identify with what they grew up in, that they're weak cookie cutter people. It's absolutely insulting and offensive. Yet, I didn't just assume you were some asshole dude just because you started off inflammatory.

    My *sarcasm* was definitely not an accident. I didn't know "Breaking it down Barney style" was such an insult to you though. Do you get this upset and lose all respect for a kid when he calls you a poo poo head too? It's a purple dinosaur. That said things in simpler, more plain terms. Which I did. I found it fitting, albeit definitely sarcastic.

    I'm guessing you probably didn't find my mic drop funny. Which is fine.. it made me feel a little better to make a joke out of the situation, versus .. I dunno.. being angry at how insulting your OP and posts were, and how you literally threw words into my mouth despite taking painful PC steps to make sure I was absolutely not saying that in my posts.

    Yeah, I'd say we definitely have different views on what is insulting or not. So I'll call it day here.
    Actually, I've never had a kid call me a poo poo head. Sometimes, children are more mature than adults.

    Ultimately, I think this debate boils down to, does a person seek external validation and outside forces to form their identity or do they venture inward, ruminating and questioning preexisting beliefs that were impressed upon them. Not that a person should be a vacuum that is impenetrable from the outside, but if they are nothing more than a mirror reflecting cultural ideals or whatever group they're "supposed" to belong to, that's not much of a personal identity. It's a caricature.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    Actually, I've never had a kid call me a poo poo head. Sometimes, children are more mature than adults.

    Ultimately, I think this debate boils down to, does a person seek external validation and outside forces to form their identity or do they venture inward, ruminating and questioning preexisting beliefs that were impressed upon them. Not that a person should be a vacuum that is impenetrable from the outside, but if they are nothing more than a mirror reflecting cultural ideals or whatever group they're "supposed" to belong to, that's not much of a personal identity. It's a caricature.
    No one is nothing more than a mirror, just as no one solely ventures inward.

    You should quit before you get farther behind.

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