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Blue Pill or Red Pill

Rail Tracer

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and see how far the rabbit hole goes...

A clique saying, I bet I and a few people have made threads about it, but it is easy to understand for most people.

Crazy thoughts, but, we often think of unaware or willfully ignorant people as living more "peacefully" than the overly aware folks (ignoring the people that just don't care about the pills.) At least, it would seem like the case.

Some things are better not known? Do you agree?

How about kids? Does one cherish them for their naivety?

In Plato Republic, there was a discussion that when kids are taught, one should not teach them everything that is wrong with the world while they are growing up, but only when they are themselves ready for learning these things because it infects their mind and the quality of life of the society if we teach them these things too early. (Somewhere along the lines.)

Some scholars even believe that one should use some manipulation and mind training towards society as it is something necessary for society, even if there would be people who would want to disagree with such decision.

Some dark stuff to think about.

For instance, is it better for children to learn the pledge of allegiance to have nationalism towards their country, or does one simply not force a child to know about the pledge because it is a "blue pill?" What if it makes people in society better in that the society learns to work with one another? Is that a reason for making people swallow the blue pill instead of the red pill? Is it really as bad as this video presents it? (Jokes aside, I agree with the message.)

EDIT: LOL I wanted this topic to be in the mature section because I wanted it to be a serious/deeper discussion, but ehh.
 

tkae.

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I'd rather have the knowledge and then decide whether or not I'd prefer to live ignorantly of it.
 
W

WhoCares

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Knowledge cant be unlearned, once you have, it forever changes the picture. If I had my time over I would have engaged in less self discovery and more denial by throwing myself into the physical manifestations of life and calling that done. To be where I am now is a misery.
 

Rail Tracer

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Knowledge cant be unlearned, once you have, it forever changes the picture. If I had my time over I would have engaged in less self discovery and more denial by throwing myself into the physical manifestations of life and calling that done. To be where I am now is a misery.

Basically, the rabbit hole was a lot deeper than you bargained for? Once we know, whether because one wanted to or by accident, one cannot not know, unless there is a way to make someone forget.

I remember [MENTION=9273]Vasilisa[/MENTION] posted something about how a college graduate (the speaker for his graduating class, I think he took philosophy) talked about life, about how everything he would think about, about how many people would just go through the mere motions of it. About how college graduates going towards the wide world should keep themselves from going through these mere motions. As a result, it made it more (painfully?) aware about himself and of others.

Although people thought he may have been doing great, he went through a long bout of depression. And, well it didn't end as well as one would of hope.

But would living through the misery and knowing what is better than living in peace and not knowing anything? Would you say it was better to have been forever a kid than to have all this knowledge pushed into your head?
 
W

WhoCares

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Forever a kid anyday. Not everyone is equipped to handle the stark realities of life, I certainly am not. Can't count the number of times I've considered suicide as a realistic option. We think we want to know, that is until we actually know then we're asking for bleach to poured on our eyes. Not that being naive would have saved me from the circumstances I've lived,but back then, I had a blind optimism about everything and an unwavering faith that when bad shit happens, its rare and fleeting. Few thoughts are more depressing than the knowledge that bad shit is common and enduring.
 

Such Irony

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I mix them together to make a purple pill for double the fun!
 

Rail Tracer

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Forever a kid anyday. Not everyone is equipped to handle the stark realities of life, I certainly am not. Can't count the number of times I've considered suicide as a realistic option. We think we want to know, that is until we actually know then we're asking for bleach to poured on our eyes. Not that being naive would have saved me from the circumstances I've lived,but back then, I had a blind optimism about everything and an unwavering faith that when bad shit happens, its rare and fleeting. Few thoughts are more depressing than the knowledge that bad shit is common and enduring.

Do you think it is necessary or inescapable for some people to swallow more of the red pill so that others enjoy the blue pill?

Say, for example, a mother and father trying their best in their circumstances to raise a child without ever hinting at their financial situation to the child?


----


I think I've only read about your situation a little bit, or only got little glimpses of it. So I understand.
 

Typh0n

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I think that I want to know the big picture of whats going on, but not necessarily every detail. I have an obsession with details, as they make me feel Im forgetting something important. But what I find is that most of the tme, the details of what you know are rather incosequential, and if they werent, you would know why. I think having to remember every detail would make one mad. But if you know the big picture(like whats going on in society that is bad and good), I dont find that too disturbing, usually(of course that depends on what it is thats going on).
 

Vasilisa

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David Foster Wallace (1962 - 2008)

I remember [MENTION=9273]Vasilisa[/MENTION] posted something about how a college graduate (the speaker for his graduating class, I think he took philosophy) talked about life, about how everything he would think about, about how many people would just go through the mere motions of it. About how college graduates going towards the wide world should keep themselves from going through these mere motions. As a result, it made it more (painfully?) aware about himself and of others.

Although people thought he may have been doing great, he went through a long bout of depression. And, well it didn't end as well as one would of hope.

David Foster Wallace gave the commencement address at Kenyon College on the 21st of May 2005. It is still a great read/ listen, especially at this time of year.



David Foster Wallace said:
Think of the old cliché about “the mind being an excellent servant but a terrible master.” This, like many clichés, so lame and unexciting on the surface, actually expresses a great and terrible truth. It is not the least bit coincidental that adults who commit suicide with firearms almost always shoot themselves in: the head. They shoot the terrible master.

 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

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To sit and watch as infinitely narrow shadows flicker against a cold unnatural wall, or to drift forever along the swells of a mountainous ocean a thousandfold more hideous than our most horrific childhood visions?

Citation: Lovecraft
 

Rail Tracer

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Huh, I guess my opening post was confusing (I've been known to be a bit weird with my speech.) That, or my train of thought went all over the place. What I am saying is... is it warranted if people do not know if it means you/someone is protecting that person. Would it be acceptable that one person is taking the heat so another person wouldn't need to. Basically, you become the keeper of that person? When I said blue/red pill, I was just making a reference as it is the most easiest to understand.

1: In Plato Republic, there was a discussion that when kids are taught, one should not teach them everything that is wrong with the world while they are growing up, but only when they are themselves ready for learning these things because it infects their mind and the quality of life of the society if we teach them these things too early. (Somewhere along the lines.)

2: Some scholars even believe that one should use some manipulation and mind training towards society as it is something necessary for society, even if there would be people who would want to disagree with such decision.

These two examples are what I am trying to get at. In both cases, both feel that it is necessary to shield or at least guide people in a certain direction, even if one doesn't get all the information. The dialogue in Plato Republic talked about teaching the right kinds of stories to children (so no Homer) so that they are raised properly. The second one, Barneys feel that Propaganda is necessary in a society so we have to shape society's mind a certain way (think of American WWII Propaganda.) Some will say that both situations are disagreeable in that it is shielding information from children and/adults and not exactly giving the truth. But is it disagreeable and wrong to be untruthful if that is what matters?

I think that I want to know the big picture of whats going on, but not necessarily every detail. I have an obsession with details, as they make me feel Im forgetting something important. But what I find is that most of the tme, the details of what you know are rather incosequential, and if they werent, you would know why. I think having to remember every detail would make one mad. But if you know the big picture(like whats going on in society that is bad and good), I dont find that too disturbing, usually(of course that depends on what it is thats going on).

So basically, you don't mind whether the information given is good or bad, just as long as it is digestible and you have the gist of the information?
 

Mole

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1 Corinthians 13:11 -

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
 

Typh0n

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So basically, you don't mind whether the information given is good or bad, just as long as it is digestible and you have the gist of the information?

Thats not what I said.

What I said was that "disturbing" information is not so much disturbing because of its contents, its disturbing because Im afraid to forget it(and if I forget it, it can be used aginst me). That is, at least what I feared.
 

Typh0n

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Okay, strike what I said. The details are important, even if they may drive me mad sometimes.
 

Kyo

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I think there is such thing as necessary info or knowledge control, and I wouldn't have much qualms if it's done by someone whom I deeply trust about the matter. Some truths can require preparation to accept or overcome, otherwise it can consume one unneededly. However, if this kind of control is done with questionable motives or abilities, then that's a different story.
 
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