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  1. #51
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Interesting. Why Is that? Buddhism sees the world as it is then learns not to judge it. I dont see anything inherently dangerous in that. Ceasing to cling to blind optimism isnt in and if itself a danger or something to be avoided. Many people have been where I am and found their own adjustment to their new understanding of reality or found something to spur them on.

    By professional help I'm assuming you mean GP Dr's & Psychologists? Sorry not a fan. I am seeking professional help, just not those avenues. I've found TCM & Acupuncture to be invaluable actually. The meditative and physical aspects of yoga are also proving to be worthwhile for mood elevation and stabilisation. Although its not apparent here I'm in a different place than the start of this thread implies but its a long process as I'm sure any aspect of more mainstream therapies would also be.
    True abiut what you said about buddhism. However he world as it is should be started to view if you are in a neutral or positive mentality i believe. If somone is depressed that's a completely different story.

    The good and the bad (as perceived by us) should be viewed neutrally. When depresed (from what i have experienced) everything would look negative even the ones that normally brings you happiness or excitement. (And the depression you seem to be descrbing would resultnexactly in that.)

    Vipassana (kayanupassana which i like the most) views one's body as one:walks, talks, eats, thinks, watches etc (basically keep repeating to oneself what one is doing: walking walking walking, standing standing etc) would result in one NOTICING ONE'S THOUGHTS, FEELINGS, EMOTIONS (finally personality) more. Will that be a good idea if one is depressed???

  2. #52
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Okay. Interesting idea and I get why you suggested it. I'm a little bit hesitant to try an haluncinogenic just because I am extremely sensitive to mild altering substances. I don't even drink because I detest the effect it has on my mind and it affects me a great deal. I do meditate daily now and I find that has a good tonifying effect on my mind, I haven't had a bout of severe downs since I began that practice where it used to be common that I would shut myself in a room for hours and drown in emotion. It's working for me really well.
    Now that I have read your conversation with INTJmom, I find that you are already on your way. I left the answer in a spoiler tag.


    Open for interpretation.
    Jo
    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

  3. #53
    WhoCares
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Vipassana (kayanupassana which i like the most) views one's body as one:walks, talks, eats, thinks, watches etc (basically keep repeating to oneself what one is doing: walking walking walking, standing standing etc) would result in one NOTICING ONE'S THOUGHTS, FEELINGS, EMOTIONS (finally personality) more. Will that be a good idea if one is depressed???
    Depends, you cannot begin to unravel something you are unaware exists. I think overall people are quite phobic of this state of mind known as depression. The cures tend to be avoidant in nature (don't go there, don't think that, dont explore or reinforce that state of mind), at least that's what I get from mainstream approaches to it. It's as if realising the world isn't Disney-land is some kind of taboo.

    I see depression like a pendulum, on the one extreme is the depressed person, on the other the naive optimist. Neither are good positions for life. The optimist will be the target for avarice and get disillusioned, the depressed cannot sustain her anger at the world forever. Eventually both will be defeated by the inevitable swing towards the opposite end. Pendulums eventually find the midpoint by swinging a little less to each side each time. Why humanity is so frightened by one end of the spectrum and not the other is a mystery to me because the natural evolution of both is the midpoint. I see meditative practice as the momentum on that pendulum. No matter which end point you are on the momentum will bring you back to the midpoint.

    I think noticing ones thoughts, feelings and emotions more is a very good idea for a depressed person. In the midst of depression you cease noticing, you simply wallow. So having the detachment to notice anything (no matter how dire it may seem) is a step away from being a mass of heavy emotion without a will of your own. It's also been the only thing which has helped me in recent times. To stop experiencing the pain, for even just 15mins a day and step out of that fog is relief beyond measure. And really, all a depressed person seeks is a way to end the pain. Give them that tool and the rest takes care of itself.

  4. #54
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    What if you changed your username to "ICare"? Would that shift in attitude be helpful in some way?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #55
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Not sure if anyone has suggested this, but I'd say go climb a mountain -- alone. Pick somewhere beautiful. It will restore your faith in everything.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  6. #56
    WhoCares
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    What if you changed your username to "ICare"? Would that shift in attitude be helpful in some way?
    Not really. It wouldn't be authentic to who I am. It's a bit too...F people. Despite not caring about it in the beginning, I'm invested in this username now. To change it would ruin the continuity for me.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
    Medication, yup I wouldn't go there but if I were you ... I might take some acid. Or schrooms. In a safe haven. With someone you feel safe with. And find out if perhaps you'll find something in the journey. Actually something dissociative might be better for you, Salvia divinorum? I know it is a drug, just like medication but I was thinking perhaps; Once. Not for the rest of your life. There's nothing to be worried about either, especially if you are bored with life.
    Lol I'm not trying to hurt you or anything but this just really makes no sense. You wouldn't go "there" with medication but you'd be willing to take these hallucinogenic substances? They can have side effects just as bad as "plain" medication.


    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    It's just me. I've always been the type to use medication as an absolute last resort. I rarely take painkillers, preferring instead to let my body right itself. I also read a book recently on how to get your own brain to rebalance it's chemicals by triggering it to produce what you need. The triggers are exercise and meditation mostly so I'm all for trying that route first. Pills is a last resort for me, while I can see the usefulness of pharmaceuticals in certain situations ( where the situation is so far gone the body can't right itself, anesthesia for surgery etc...) I don't think we should reach for them as often as we do. They are potent chemicals to be used with caution, not something to ingest daily. And yes I do realise that the chinese herbs I'm taking can be just as potent and contain the same chemicals etc, but what I like about that is it's a holistic approach, a selection of tonifying and medicative herbs designed to bring the entire system back into its own balance. Not a concentrated extract, designed to fix a single symptom. Thinking about it, I suppose my real objection is the idea of medicating symptoms instead of eliminating the cause.
    Well you see, I agree that the cause is what needs to be fixed, and this is exactly why I said, see if the cause is an imbalance of biological origin. Because in that case, medication will fix the cause instead of just fixing symptoms. Pills are also last resort for me btw. I never take painkillers either and I agree that we shouldn't reach for drugs so often. But when I say "drugs" here, I include with that all the other kinds of substances, like the chinese herbs you mentioned here.

    I don't buy the marketing bullshit that e.g. chinese herbs are more "holistic". The people who figured out that these herbs work for some things, they don't have a great understanding of how the herbs work. This idea of bringing "the system back into balance" is just marketing bollocks, again. Your body already does that on its own, look up "homeostasis". In my view, the herbs are exactly the same kind of drugs as "official" drugs. They are, as you said, potent chemicals, have side effects, we don't entirely know yet how they work, etc. No difference here.

    I'm not trying to go off topic arguing about this though; I'm trying to help by explaining how it's all just nonsense that people say to sell such products, chinese herbs in this case.


    No I wasn't always depressed. It really only came on in my late mid 30's when I experienced a series of lifestyle changes that were unanticipated.
    Sounds like that's the cause then and that's what should be explored. Would you be willing to talk about these changes here? Of course I'm new to the party here, maybe you already looked into that a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    I do meditate daily now and I find that has a good tonifying effect on my mind, I haven't had a bout of severe downs since I began that practice where it used to be common that I would shut myself in a room for hours and drown in emotion. It's working for me really well.
    Hmm so the meditation has made you less emotional? What do you have instead then? I want to add here, it's often good to release emotions, as it has a positive effect on the body and mind, this effect has also been explained on the biochemistry level. Of course not trying to suggest that you should drown in emotions all day.. if there's a problem that can be fixed, better fix that... my point is just about not suppressing all emotions.

  8. #58
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Not really. It wouldn't be authentic to who I am. It's a bit too...F people. Despite not caring about it in the beginning, I'm invested in this username now. To change it would ruin the continuity for me.
    I wasn't being literal.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #59
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Not really. It wouldn't be authentic to who I am. It's a bit too...F people. Despite not caring about it in the beginning, I'm invested in this username now. To change it would ruin the continuity for me.
    Yeah don't change it, I've had mine changed recently because of a profile access issue and now I don't even have a profile. (It's in the process of being fixed)

  10. #60
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Lol I'm not trying to hurt you or anything but this just really makes no sense. You wouldn't go "there" with medication but you'd be willing to take these hallucinogenic substances? They can have side effects just as bad as "plain" medication.
    Yup. I just don't trust 'em. I don't trust acid either.

    I understand where you are coming from and all I can say is: I'm a hypocrite. And I do not know how to reconcile my understandings of either.
    Clear and obvious cognitive dissonance, of which I cannot solve. So I will shy away from this and pretend this haven't happened.
    Then my mind can try to find rational ideas as to why this is, while in the meantime I'll sort through my wardrobe. Perhaps, after a little while,
    I can step outside and find myself looking at the two different ideas with a little more understanding as to why I had those ideas in the first place
    and then I'll be able to make a more united understanding of what I think about drugs, medical or otherwise.

    Thanks though.
    Open for interpretation.
    Jo
    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

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