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  1. #51
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I like MBTI best, but even is only, at best, a suggestive template, not a personality dictate. It should be used to help understand one's cognitive preferences, not to define one's self or limit a person to a set of acceptable behaviors and thought patterns associated with that particular "type."

    I think the best way and most credible way to understand human personalities is to interact with them in the real world and only use typology systems as a tool to help in that understanding. It's like typology systems are mere paint brushes. The art lies within the artist, not the brushes.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  2. #52
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I like to navigate between everything, and really I don't see "more credibility" in any of them. If I was describing a person or group, I would just use the system that works best for that situation. Though, in order of most used to least used, I would say socionics>ennea>JCF.
    (Fi logic )
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  3. #53
    WhoCares
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    None of them. You cannot break up the infinite into 16 or so classifications.

  4. #54
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    Michael jackson
    In order for society to survive, we must all pitch in and cooperate with one another, split the resources fairly.
    If we get greedy, everything will fall apart
    The main reason why there is no long peace is because everything is set and stone.
    Another is that resources are limited and the ones who had the most goes bad because they are in control.

  5. #55
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    Big 5 is easily the most credible. Not because of any special insights it contains, but because it is treated with much more consistency and empiricism than any others.

    1. It maintains definitions really well. In say, MBTI, one man's Fi is another man's Ti (even more extreme with the full four letter types), but Big 5 has accountable definitions that hold across people and even cultures to some degree.

    2. It's definitions are much more specific and quantifiable. The polar opposite of enneagram.

    3. It makes fewer unnecessary assumptions. MBTI and Socionics make factual claims regarding dichotomies in particular. Where big 5 has a dichotomy, it's actually due to you answering negatively or positively to the same question or idea, so one naturally takes away from the other. In Jung's stuff, even the introversion/extroversion dichotomy doesn't have much reality in testing (e.g. someone can be more introverted AND extroverted than someone else), let alone the other functions.

    The biggest assumption it doesn't make are that personalities are actually real. You can generalize traits about a person's behavior, but it doesn't mean they'll hold in the future. Instead Big 5 makes the minimal assumption of personal "traits" that could change over time.

    4. It's actually somewhat empirical. It doesn't have the greatest predictive power, but when plenty of studies find quite a strong affect regarding a trait, you can have at least some confidence it's not just a semantic game or trying to make a prejudice more legitimate via technical terms.

    Unfortunately this means it's the most boring. People can't play around with it in their heads nearly as easily. I've also heard it said that 5 variables goes slightly beyond what the brain is comfortable manipulating mentally, whereas four is the sweet spot between challenge and ease.

    You can also make up your own semantics, and as long as you treat it with the same methodology, it'll likely be just as good as big 5.
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  6. #56
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    ^^ Yes, it's credible to ask, "Is this apple red?" and get the answer, "Yes, the apple is red."

    Fully reliable and repeatable.

    The "insights" part you casually dismiss is where "validity" comes in.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #57
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Jesus and Hitler as INFJ?!

    I didn't really read the OP
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The "insights" part you casually dismiss is where "validity" comes in.
    No, no. The validity comes from the empiricism and the factor analysis that follows. That's what gets us the predictive power (i.e. insight).

    You're still dealing with a lot of problems, but with something as complex and self-referencing as the brain it's easily the best way. Psychology itself has most of those problems in general, but compared to folk psychology it's a dream.

  9. #59
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    No, no. The validity comes from the empiricism and the factor analysis that follows. That's what gets us the predictive power (i.e. insight).

    You're still dealing with a lot of problems, but with something as complex and self-referencing as the brain it's easily the best way. Psychology itself has most of those problems in general, but compared to folk psychology it's a dream.
    At which point we're begging the question of whether psychology can be "scientific" in a truly meaningful sense. The irony, in my opinion, is that the more "scientific" psychology gets, the stupider it gets.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    At which point we're begging the question of whether psychology can be "scientific" in a truly meaningful sense. The irony, in my opinion, is that the more "scientific" psychology gets, the stupider it gets.
    Psychology is the science of the mind and wouldn't exist without the scientific method that spawned it (turbulently). Incredible advances have been made despite the complexity and the acceleration of neuroscience and computation will only increase that rate. Big 5 is hardly a significant part of that, but still describes a person's emotions and traits far more effectively than say, MBTI, who's few factual claims are largely disproved by this point or were trivial in the first place.

    Non-scientific psychoanalysis has often been significantly outperformed by algorithms with only a few simple variables in them. Folk psychology in general has gone the same way, though a few surprises are there (willpower, for example, largely resembles an actual process of the brain). The machine learning and data mining you need for a complex science like psychology, or just the abstract/neurological data of the basics, is not going to satisfy that instinct to understand people and play around with personal perceptions very much.

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