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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Surviving and Thriving

    Survival requires we focus on the outside; while thriving requires we focus on the inside.

    Most of us focus on the outside so we are in survival mode. We take the survival mode for granted because everyone around us is in the survival mode.

    Some cultures live in the survival mode until their children are raised and leave home, then they put on the robes of a monk or nun and pursue the inner life in order to thrive.

    Our tradition is the opposite of this: we value youth who are necessarily in the survival mode, and we leave no room in our lives for thriving by focusing on the inner.

    In fact those who are thriving and focusing on the inner make those in survival mode uncomfortable. So those in survival mode see thriving as a threat to their survival.

    The Ancient Greeks by contrast saw contemplation as the chief good, but modern economics sees the anxiety of the survival mode as driving consumer demand.

    The ideal life as the Ancient Greeks saw was to have our survival needs met so we could devote ourselves to thriving and the inner life.

  2. #2
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    That is unless you happened to be, as most people were in Ancient Greece, a slave or serf, then you just worked your ass off.

  3. #3
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Survival requires we focus on the outside; while thriving requires we focus on the inside.

    Most of us focus on the outside so we are in survival mode. We take the survival mode for granted because everyone around us is in the survival mode.

    Some cultures live in the survival mode until their children are raised and leave home, then they put on the robes of a monk or nun and pursue the inner life in order to thrive.

    Our tradition is the opposite of this: we value youth who are necessarily in the survival mode, and we leave no room in our lives for thriving by focusing on the inner.

    In fact those who are thriving and focusing on the inner make those in survival mode uncomfortable. So those in survival mode see thriving as a threat to their survival.

    The Ancient Greeks by contrast saw contemplation as the chief good, but modern economics sees the anxiety of the survival mode as driving consumer demand.

    The ideal life as the Ancient Greeks saw was to have our survival needs met so we could devote ourselves to thriving and the inner life.
    Consumerism requires keeping people in a primal state, anxious, fearful, unsatisfied so that they would seek gratification from the outside, which some opportunist are so glad to provide at a certain price of course...

    There needs to be a fine balance between them though... The balance seems to have shifted too much towards survival and narcissism...since always?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Consumerism requires keeping people in a primal state, anxious, fearful, unsatisfied so that they would seek gratification from the outside, which some opportunist are so glad to provide at a certain price of course...

    There needs to be a fine balance between them though... The balance seems to have shifted too much towards survival and narcissism...since always?
    The Ancient Greeks had their survival needs met by slaves, while we have our survival needs met by technology.

    The Ancient Greeks then created a thriving philosophy which is the basis of Western philosophy.
    The Ancient Greeks thrived and saw that the Gods were expressions of natural forces and so began science.
    The Ancient Greeks thrived and created great and enduring sculptures, and architecture, and the greatest of plays.
    The Ancient Greeks thrived and saw that power tends to corrupt and so invented democracy to limit power and maximise freedom.
    The Ancient Greeks were so accomplished that the Ancient Greek language became the lingua franca of the Ancient world.
    So the New Testament was written in Ancient Greek, and it was Ancient Greek texts that gave birth to the European Renaissance and the modern world.

  5. #5
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    Default The Patsies of the Bourgeoisie

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Consumerism requires keeping people in a primal state, anxious, fearful, unsatisfied so that they would seek gratification from the outside, which some opportunist are so glad to provide at a certain price of course...

    There needs to be a fine balance between them though... The balance seems to have shifted too much towards survival and narcissism...since always?
    The bourgeois revolution of 1776 gave us the mercantile imperative.

    The mercantile imperative is to make enough money so that the currency becomes the Reserve Currency of the world.

    The USA has achieved this mercantile imperative 70 years ago.

    The Reserve Currency of the world is an exorbitant privilege which the USA maintains by controlling consumers.

    The easiest consumers to control are youth.

    And although youth are financially and emotionally dependent on their parents, they have the illusion they are in control, and so bourgeois control by consumerism is invisible to them.

    The youth are the patsies of the bourgeoisie.

  6. #6
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    That is unless you happened to be, as most people were in Ancient Greece, a slave or serf, then you just worked your ass off.
    The term "serf" applies to a medieval rank. People in Ancient Greece who were slaves were not ethnic Greeks, they were captives.


    I agree with Mole and Yeghor.

  7. #7
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    The term "serf" applies to a medieval rank. People in Ancient Greece who were slaves were not ethnic Greeks, they were captives.


    I agree with Mole and Yeghor.
    That's even worse, because it means they were racists as well as slave masters. They were a bunch of hypocrites who contributed nothing to the world by sitting around trying to sound intelligent.

    In reality, they accomplished nothing. Probably hundreds of ancient cultures did what they did, and it was just forgotten.

    No, the superstitious monks who wrote all their stuff down are the ones who actually made the contributions to civilization which people like Leonardo Da Vinci who understood the real world were able to use to create technologies which later they rationalized with a bunch of Greek stuff. The Greeks are highly overrated. The Italians are the ones who started it all.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion 4.5 View Post
    The Greeks are highly overrated.
    The Ancient Romans thought so highly of Ancient Greek culture, they made sure their children had Greek tutors.

    And today it is impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek. So why not follow in the footsteps of the children of Rome and get a tutor of Ancient Greek?

  9. #9
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The Ancient Romans thought so highly of Ancient Greek culture, they made sure their children had Greek tutors.

    And today it is impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek. So why not follow in the footsteps of the children of Rome and get a tutor of Ancient Greek?
    Compared to the Romans, I guess the Greeks did show up pretty well. They had some kind of civilization, at least.

    Why is it impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion 4.5 View Post
    Compared to the Romans, I guess the Greeks did show up pretty well. They had some kind of civilization, at least.

    Why is it impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek?
    Western civilization is based on Ancient Greek philosophy, Judaism, Christianity and the Enlightenment.

    So to read and write Ancient Greek takes us to the origins of Western philosophy.

    And to read and write Ancient Greek takes us to the origins of Christianity as the New Testament is written in Ancient Greek.

    And to read and write Ancient Greek takes us to the origins of the Renaissance and then on to the Enlightenment.

    And to read and write Ancient Greek enables us to read the great Greek plays and texts.

    And you will discover that Ancient Greek is a beautiful language that of course informs English.

    But don't study Ancient Greek for advantage, study Ancient Greek for its own sake, and you will find yourself at home three thousand years ago.

    And become an Ancient Greek and find yourself at home in the modern world.

    Many of us are deracinated in the modern world, we find ourselves homeless, not knowing where we came from, and so not know where we are going. So reading and writing Ancient Greek orientates us to our modern world and to our Western Civilization.

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