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  1. #1
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Default Perspectives of others verse self

    (This is the thread I was talking about, Ivy)

    One of my paranoid stoner Ni friends (who is awesome) once asked me what I would think if it turned out all those empty faces you walk past on the street were just put there to make it seem like everything was ok, keep the system running, but they arn't actually people (or in other words, what if it IS the Matrix ). He then went on a rant about how he is smarter than people give him credit for (which is true).

    I've noticed that people (including myself at times) do not treat people the same way they treat themselves. What I mean is, we all have a world inside our heads that we know well that others do not see, but sometimes people don't acknowledge that other people may have just as rich an inner world as themselves. I.e. you realize the depth of your own existance but question the inner existance of a random stranger you don't know well.

    Have you experienced this or noticed it in other people as well?

    Is this common among a certain age group?

    What conflicts do you think it can cause in interpersonal relationships, and to the personal ego itself?

  2. #2
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I think this is rather particular to the younger crowd.

    And yes... I have noticed this. Really you can't reach into somebody's brain and find that whole inner world, so the only thing you can see is their patterns of action -- which may or may not represent the person's inner depth.

    I don't see a lot of depth in people, and they probably don't see a lot of depth in me, either. But, for some reason, I hold out hope that people are not as vacuous as they appear...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #3
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    (This is the thread I was talking about, Ivy)

    One of my paranoid stoner Ni friends (who is awesome) once asked me what I would think if it turned out all those empty faces you walk past on the street were just put there to make it seem like everything was ok, keep the system running, but they arn't actually people (or in other words, what if it IS the Matrix ). He then went on a rant about how he is smarter than people give him credit for (which is true).

    I've noticed that people (including myself at times) do not treat people the same way they treat themselves. What I mean is, we all have a world inside our heads that we know well that others do not see, but sometimes people don't acknowledge that other people may have just as rich an inner world as themselves. I.e. you realize the depth of your own existance but question the inner existance of a random stranger you don't know well.

    Have you experienced this or noticed it in other people as well?

    Is this common among a certain age group?

    What conflicts do you think it can cause in interpersonal relationships, and to the personal ego itself?
    Question 1: Yeah, I've experienced that. I've seen it a little in other people, but stayed out because that's their stuff and not mine, and I wasn't interested. Once however, it was just too weird.

    Question 2: I think most people have an inner world and few don't. That's just a guess. And I agree with Haphazard with it being more particular to younger folks.

    Question 3: The only real danger of having too strong an inner world is the whole believing its the outer world. Detachment. Other people become dreams in your mind and they no longer are themselves. There are people who are shallow in character and I think that sucks. I try not to lead a contrived existence.
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    I could have related to this feeling very well a few years ago. At some point though, you do begin to recognize that others most definitely have their own set of perceptions about everything and will act accordingly. Learning about the MBTI really opened my eyes to that, in fact. Everyone (I would hope) has some sort of inner depth, but recognizing it in others first requires acknowledging that another's "inner depth" may be of a different nature than one's own.
    ALL AROUND THE WORLD PEOPLE EATIN' GUMBO

  5. #5
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    I easily acknowledge that other people have rich and complex inner worlds, but I'm generally just 50 times more interested in my own, and to a slightly lesser extent, whatever part of the external world our individual inner worlds can mesh together through communication and action.

    It's hard to define what's going on when we're all sharing parts of own inner worlds with each other. It's fascinating, but it's hard to define because for however much we think we're learning about the other person and their perspective, we're just continually using that incoming information to build up our own perceptions, thoughts, and beliefs.

    It's my own depth that allows me to enjoy whatever another person can offer, whether it's deep or shallow. Regardless of how much they put out there, though, I'll probably never come close to truly understanding what it's like to be them. And that's fine. I think that's the way it's meant to be. We can spend a lifetime exploring our own minds and never get bored. I believe it all comes together. It's all connected.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    Since this would be associated with i functions, I think that introverts have the richest inner life, but extroverts with a strong seconday function can have a rich inner life too.

    I am aware that sometimes when I "go inside" I have a blank look on my face, so maybe others with blank looks are also currently active "inside."

    Different function would have a different type of inner life.

    Here is how I imagine it would break down. Just guessing on these though Ni and Ni + Fi are based on my own experience.

    Ni - the sterotypical day dreamer, made up stories, rich fantasy life
    Si - dreams of enjoyable past experiences
    Ti - loves to analyze things, plan things, thinks about how things work
    Fi - a rich emotional inner life

    Ni + Fi might have made up stories that are very emotional
    Ni + Ti might dream up inventions
    Si + Fi might dream of past experiences with strong emotional ties
    Si + Ti might plan how to create favorable experiences, analyze what went right and wrong in past experiences for a more optimal future experience.

    Ilah

  7. #7
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    It's fascinating, but it's hard to define because for however much we think we're learning about the other person and their perspective, we're just continually using that incoming information to build up our own perceptions, thoughts, and beliefs.

    It's my own depth that allows me to enjoy whatever another person can offer, whether it's deep or shallow. Regardless of how much they put out there, though, I'll probably never come close to truly understanding what it's like to be them. And that's fine. I think that's the way it's meant to be. We can spend a lifetime exploring our own minds and never get bored. I believe it all comes together. It's all connected.
    I agree with all of this. Going along with the fact that it can take time to recognize that others do indeed have their own internal worlds, it's not a given that you will ever understand all of them. I enjoy hearing others' perspectives, but rather than taking time to understand their full inner thoughts on things, I generally just take whatever information that applies and add it to my own inner storehouse of perspectives. It's an ongoing robbery! And that's fine. It's a matter of learning to respect others and their inner views without having to understand them completely - just let them exist rather than mounting some high horse of arrogance (unless they're like crazy Nazis or something, at which point you have the right to a duel).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ilah View Post

    Ni - the sterotypical day dreamer, made up stories, rich fantasy life
    Si - dreams of enjoyable past experiences
    Ti - loves to analyze things, plan things, thinks about how things work
    Fi - a rich emotional inner life

    Ilah
    That's interesting. I'm thinking of the different types that I know (E and I), and those seem to ring true to their characters as far as I'm aware of them.
    ALL AROUND THE WORLD PEOPLE EATIN' GUMBO

  8. #8
    Senor Membrane
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    I like this topic I have very mixed feelings about this.

    It would be nice to say that yes, everyone has a beautiful, beautiful ocean inside. But I really can't say that. I do know that there are many people whose minds I'd like to spy, interesting people in the way they think and act. They seem "alive" whenever you see them. But... there are so much more of those that are going with the auto-pilot. People who do not think for themselves. They are out there, and I am sure that they have smaller oceans than the ones who think about stuff. I was in a similar zombie-mode for a long time and there was very poor inner life for me then.

    It does bother me, though, that this sounds like I discredit people for not being like me. I would like to think that is not the case, but there's no way knowing, is there... But, on the other hand, the people I do give credit are people who are not always like me. I see the "aliveness" sometimes in stranger walking by. Its nice.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ishida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question 1!
    Have you experienced this or noticed it in other people as well?
    Yes, I have. More recently than before. My brother had to cram it in my head that there are people that do not think for themselves. (He probably thinks me one of those types now.) It sucks, but you can try and open it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Question 2
    Is this common among a certain age group?
    I don't know, probably teenagers would experience it the most, given they get that "center stage" thing. (I forget what it's called, but it's in psychology.) But I doubt college agers(my age) and above are immune.

    Quote Originally Posted by Question 3
    What conflicts do you think it can cause in interpersonal relationships, and to the personal ego itself?
    It may cause people to feel isolated, alone, but I mean it only takes a trip to the internet to cure that. I suppose it could cause a superiority complex.
    What a waste of life..

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