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  1. #41
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I have some fear of it in myself and in others, mostly because it doesn't seem like it is that well understood. I appreciate that there are medications, but there is something especially unnerving about losing one's sense of reason. It is more difficult to negotiate through than just physical pain and illness. I'm thankful for medications that can help to regulate people, and I appreciate those people who care enough about reason and who are not too stubborn to respond when they are having an issue. I have depression and anxiety which can be severe at times, so I don't consider myself outside the umbrella of this definition, but I do try to be responsive and grounded even if I'm being flooded with negative impulses. I have self-harmed and I feel a lot of shame about that, but I try to be non-judgmental of both myself and others.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #42
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    About forty years ago the asylums were emptied and closed to the mentally ill. And the mentally ill were to be cared for by the community. But no funding was made available for community care so the mentally ill were put on the streets or boarding houses and treated with psychotropic drugs.
    So the crime against the mentally ill was, not on liberating them from asylums, but in failing to provide funding for community care.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
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    (A hole tears in space and time, projecting a SHIP into Aboard this ship, CAPTAIN STAGFREID sits on the bridge, absently fiddling with a bit of cotton he found in one of his pockets. Present also are his second in command, the pointy-eared SCIENCE OFFICER, the ship's PILOT, and two SUBORDINATE PEONS.)

    Science Officer: "Captain, I am detecting the anomaly in this sector. Upon closer examination, it appears to be a probe of some kind."

    Captain Stagfreid: "Scan it more, Mr. Officer."

    (A beam of blue light fires from the probe, striking the SHIP in its SHIP face. Lights flicker and the bridge shakes. Several panels explode randomly, killing one of the PEONS.)

    Captain Stagfreid: "Report!"

    Mysterious Voice: "I AM GRZ'NK, HIGH EMISSARY OF THE PLANET PR'PL'CHKNZ. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR FACE DEATH."

    Captain Stagfreid: "Zounds!"

    Science Officer: "Captain, the probe is projecting a beam of concentrated kinetikrons, causing an overflow of whatsit particles in our primary conduction manifold. Ingenious really. Also the ship is melting."

    Captain Stagfreid: "Such hostility can only be met with overkill."

    Subordinate Peon: "Captain! You can't mean..."

    Captain Stagfreid: "Silence, fool. Launch...THE WALL OF TEXT!"

    What follows is my personal opinion on the subject. If you make it to the end of this post, congratulations. You deserve a gold star.


    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    so what are they?
    I believe mental illnesses are...well...that's like asking "what are movies?": a lot of different answers are all equally true. I believe some mental illnesses have "Hollywood" components to them, i.e. full blown hallucinations and psychotic breakdowns, but that they are generally more subtle than that, and thus more difficult to separate from extreme personality traits. In other words, there is no definitive line between "crazy" and "not crazy". For the purposes of this post, I will be treating the term "mental illness" and it's synonyms as descriptive of psychological traits that do more harm than good.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what do you think causes them?
    I think outside stimuli plays a big hand in it, but ultimately is overruled by internal construction. In another of your threads you talked about a study done linking "selfies" to suicide. Same deal. The availability of a project to obsess over, namely the perfect selfie, clearly didn't help that kid's mental state, but neither do I believe it caused it. The potential for obsession was already there. I start a tangent a few sections down about how advertising works, playing on base instinctual drives to convince an audience they need a certain product. Drawing all of this together into some semblance of a point, a lot of mental illnesses seem to stem from the self, but only hit the danger zone through exposure to the outside world.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    are you scared of people who are mentally ill?
    Depends. Regardless of how off the rocker they are, they are still irrevocably human (*cough* Architect *cough*), and thus can be physically fought and overpowered like humans. Mentally they are a bit more worrisome, as psychotics by definition do not behave in the way typical people do, and thus are more difficult to predict. There is also the matter of what illness in question said people have. Mental illnesses like, say, schizophrenia would be potentially as much a disadvantage as an advantage, while mental illnesses like narcissism would be more dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    do you know anyone who is?
    Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what do you think impact on society is?
    The impact on society of the more dangerously ill is obvious in the shootings, bombings, serial killers, and whatever else have you that we all hear about. Ultimately, though, as I have mentioned and will continue to mention throughout this post, it depends on the illness, and even one's definition of what an illness is. Back to the selfies from earlier, I would consider obsession with one's appearance an "illness", but our understanding of human psychology says it's completely natural to worry about how others see you. I would consider obsession with food an "illness", but that drive to seek it, hoard it, and consume it is the same one that let early humans survive on a sporadic feeding schedule, where having dinner that night was dependent on whether you managed to catch anything during the day. I would consider obsession with sex an "illness", but...well...do I need to explain that one?

    All these things have obsession in common, which I would define as a state of desire so strong it becomes a weakness. Interestingly, in all three cases, that obsession stems from completely normal and useful instinctual drives. Perhaps the better question is what effect society has on them, being that vanity, hunger, and sex all have strong roles in the field of advertising.

    That kind of went off-topic. I just hate the media and like to blame them for things. Back to the point, proper psychopaths have very obvious effects on the rest of society, but I believe the quieter of the mentally twisted are just that: quieter. The depressed certainly don't shout it from the rooftops. The obsessed obsess, but quietly, unless you make the mistake of, how shall I put it, "intruding on the focus of their obsession".

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what do you think is the most effective way of treating them?
    I think a great deal of mental "illnesses" can be solved through personal struggle, potentially most effectively, though what other answer would you expect from an introvert? Again, it depends on the illness, and the person with the illness. I personally favor the above, as the amount of introspection I do makes me more familiar with my inner self than I imagine most outsiders would be. However, for the majority of patients and the majority of illnesses, I imagine support on a social front can go a long way. People spend a lot of energy trying to fit in. If you show a mental patient they're accepted no matter what, and they believe it, they can stop spending energy on appearing "normal" and concentrate simply on getting better.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    do you think you can tell who does or doesn't have a mental illness just by a sole interaction?
    If you're lucky. A narcissistic personality, or at least the potential for one, could be suggested by something as simple as a child burning ants on the sidewalk. Schizophrenia could be hinted at in a response to a question you never asked. Obsession could reveal itself in someone spending a lot more energy than they should writing a post on a forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I am not going to share mine, nor give you my reasoning for creating this thread. I'm just curious to see how you perceive it.
    Aw. Will you change your mind if I ask nicely?
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  4. #44
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    so what are they?
    Behavior problems that don't fit neatly towards society.

    what do you think causes them?
    It depends, the symptoms may be similar, but what causes them can be as different as hormonal issues, or it can be something outside that has a strong influence that changes one's mind.

    are you scared of people who are mentally ill?
    Generally, no, but it really depends on circumstances and what kind of mental illnesses we are talking. For the common ones like depression and anxiety, not typically.

    do you know anyone who is?
    Not closely, no. Or if they do have it, I don't know about it.

    what do you think impact on society is?
    Profits for one, stigmatization for another.

    what do you think is the most effective way of treating them?
    Current literature suggest a combination of antidepressants and CBT. Since I am not a psychologist/psychiatrist, that is really all I can come up with. Of course for some people, there really isn't any need for "treating" them because lumping something that is temporary is not the same as lumping it with something that is chronic.

    do you think you can tell who does or doesn't have a mental illness just by a sole interaction?
    There are some that are easier to understand/detect based on symptoms or previous events. I try my best to not outright say that there are incident of these, however, because I don't know what the person is going through, it is also being insensitive towards the person going through those problems unless that person specifically says that he/she is going through those problems due to depression/anxiety/ptsd/etc.

  5. #45
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    so what are they?
    Something wrong in input and output of the individual... Some kind of defect in perceiving the world (cognitive abilities) or interacting with the world... Of course this needs a system to verify what the correct perception is so as to be able to make a comparison...

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what do you think causes them?
    Some kind of faulty wiring in the organism...

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    are you scared of people who are mentally ill?
    When I can't anticipate what they'll do, yes I am...

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    do you know anyone who is?
    I've bumped into a schizophreniac in the street once... She was talking to herself and accusing someone of something... I couldn't understand whether she was addressing me or not cause she wasn't looking at me... I didn't know how to react... I just moved on...

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what do you think impact on society is?
    They cannot function in a self-sufficient manner... They need care and supervision...

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what do you think is the most effective way of treating them?
    Give them space and comfort where they can behave as they like without hurting themselves or others... This of course would need resources...

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    do you think you can tell who does or doesn't have a mental illness just by a sole interaction?
    I may be able to... If there's something "off" in the interaction I'd be able to detect it... I'd investigate whether they do it on purpose or unconsciously though...

  6. #46
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    What are mental illnesses?
    I'm no PhD, but...
    Mental illness is an extremely broad category that includes everything from dysthymia (mild depression) and anxiety to disorders that distort a person's self-identity or sense of reality, such as schizophrenia. Usually, conditions defined as mental illnesses 1) affect the person's ability to function according to society's norms, and 2) also have a detrimental effect on the person's quality of life. I think that the majority of mental disorders as currently defined are legitimate illnesses that disrupt people's ability to live their lives well, but there have been many socially constructed "disorders" that pathologize what isn't inherently detrimental. (Female hysteria is the first thing that comes to mind; it pathologized women's sexual desire and normal menstrual/hormonal symptoms, and was considered a common but severe mental illness in the 19th century. Also, in many places homosexuality is still considered a mental illness.)

    What do you think causes them?
    Assuming we're talking about true illnesses:
    1. genetics
    2. someone's environment, especially their home life and work environment
    3. someone's upbringing / psychological wounds from childhood
    3. substance abuse
    4. societal factors/pressures (the "hikikomori"/recluse/extreme social anxiety problem in Japan springs to mind)

    Are you scared of people who are mentally ill?
    No, not in general. I know that most mentally ill people aren't dangerous. (If I met one who was dangerous, though, I obviously would fear them.) There's a lot of anxiety, depression, and bipolar disorder in my family, and I know from experience that mentally ill individuals are often stigmatized and misunderstood.

    Do you know anyone who is?
    I've known several people who have been diagnosed with mental illnesses. I've been diagnosed with depression and an anxiety disorder (I still have anxiety but the depression is gone; now I'm just sorta sad on and off, which is not the same thing as being clinically depressed). My mom has struggled with severe depression, and I had a friend in high school who had bipolar II disorder (the less severe form).
    I've never heard someone explicitly say they're afraid of the mentally ill, but I've seen plenty of people who have frustrating misunderstandings about the subject. In my opinion, the worst two are the idea that mental illness is a failure of strength, character, or willpower (like when ignoramuses say things like: depressed people should "snap out of it", or that they have no reason to be depressed and are ungrateful ), and when people believe that mentally ill equals a lack of sanity. It's not the same thing; there are plenty of mental illnesses where the person is still in touch with reality; it's just hard to function well in it.

    I might edit this and answer the other questions later.

  7. #47
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    They need to be cured, they can be cured, they are easy to cure, but no one is doing it. Anyone who tries is met with more bullshit. Also, for almost every mental illness, there are natural alternatives that work much better than the crappy medication prescribed.

    I'm kinda confused as to why depression, ADHD, and anxiety are classified as mental illnesses. It seems the term mental illness should be reserved for things like Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder.

    what do you think causes them?
    No idea.

    are you scared of people who are mentally ill?
    No, unless they are violent or completely disconnected to the point they'd start blaming me for what's happening to them, or anything else I didn't do.

    do you know anyone who is?
    I am, and my sister is, but not from natural causes. Someone clearly did this.

    what do you think impact on society is?
    Not much out of the ordinary, save the rare random shooting sprees and such things. I think there's more impact on the person suffering from the illness than anyone else.

    what do you think is the most effective way of treating them?
    Talking sure as hell isn't. Natural remedies usually work better than pharmaceuticals and with less side effects. Like, for many people, a high dose of Niacin (3g+) works better to treat Schizophrenia than other alternatives. Doesn't work for me, though, and neither does anything else. Then again what I have isn't Schizophrenia, they just like to say that's what it is.

    do you think you can tell who does or doesn't have a mental illness just by a sole interaction?
    Usually. Something always seems off about them.

  8. #48
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    I was influenced by R.D.Laing, who wrote, The Divided Self.

    Ronald Laing had the gift of being able to fully empathise with those in psychosis.

    Dr Laing started a revolutionary centre for those with psychosis in the middle of London. You can see Kingsley Hall at http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...-health-sanity

    And interestingly I seem to have a special bond with those who were touched by R.D.Laing.

    I think R.D.Laing was one of those rare lovable people like Simone Weil - people who change your life by their very presence.

    Meet Simone Weil (pronounced Vey) on http://www.linestreet.net/

  9. #49
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    I saw something on reddit that I think is relevant to this discussion. It's someone's perspective about being mentally ill in Canada. I'll quote it here.


    It's not "Government" support that she needed. It is support in general. I am mentally ill. I have some combination of postraumatic stress, bipolar and borderline personality disorders. These things are complicated and that's why they are in need of understanding.
    I want to preface why I write this, because the internet is complicated and people are very partisan. I write this because I have a compulsion. I simply must share my experience and hope that it gives some insight into why this woman did this. I am trying to get treatment for my mental illness and it is a miserable failure in every way I can think of. I can say in all seriousness that since going on OW it has been a direct cause of at least 2 very dark suicidal moments.
    I am not uneducated or incapable. I am a skilled software developer who cannot find a manner in which my mental illness and my skills makes me a viable employee. It's not that I can't work, it's not that I'm not skilled. It's that the current job market and attitude is very cut throat. If you are mentally ill it bleeds through in everything you do. People don't mean to judge you but they do. I am subconsciously relegated in peoples minds because my mental illness makes me act like a lazy useless employee if not accommodated for, I will get depressed, anxious and it will destroy my ability to work. All of this offset by the fact I have worked on robots that did stroke research with ultrasound technology. I have completed a program that only 15% of entrants graduate from. I have evidence that I am not a lazy idiot but at work it's what I get treated as at worst and at best a diligent and unrewarded worker bee that has mental breakdowns.
    I had a moment where I was standing beside an overpass in London Ontario debating on which truck to jump down in front of to end me. Because I had realized that even getting educated and getting skilled I can't escape poverty. I was born into such poverty, only had a woodstove to heat my house. Water would freeze in my bedroom during the winter. We ate the choicest pig scrapes for several years when things got really tight. A dutch farmer would let my dad go through what he got from grocery stores before he gave it to his pigs. I can build a 3D printer and have worked on government web pages. And my mental illness chains me to the poverty I was born into.
    Because I can't always be cool. I can't always be calm. I try very hard but I get pretty fucking angry at times. I was so badly teased in a little rural Ontario school that I was driven to attempt suicide at 11. Not my parents, teacher, pastors fucking anyone even realized. I do not trust people for pretty good reasons. But I love people at the same time and my inability to let people close to me is maddening. I can't talk to my bosses if I think they will judge me. Because my nervous system was so fucked up from the constant bullying. I can't separate that reaction. The mild social anxiety everyone experiences when talking to a superior is full out lion in the grass for me. And it's like that not because I was sheltered. But because the switch was flipped so hard and so many times that it stuck.
    And being mentally ill in this society is the worst fucking thing I have ever experienced. I have had to stop lying to myself about myself. I have had to admit as part of my therapy that I am this way. Everything I had read about working through my problems involves taking the time to address how I think. A majorly effective treatment for PTSD is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or changing how we think. We change how we think by realizing how we think. So I find there is a lot of worst before it gets better as I sort through the emotions. I've withdrawn from society and have depression issues.
    After losing work I went on EI. Which gave me 800 dollars every 2 weeks. I worked long enough to qualify for the full 42 weeks. But medical is only 15 weeks. After applying it took 3 months to finally get paid. I was essentially homeless during this, couch surfing mostly. But since my wife and I still technically shared an address I wasn't allowed to collect OW. I leaned on the remainder of my sad savings and wound up taking some cards people offered at stores. Living off those. After about 6 months of being unemployed my EI ran out (The website clearly stated that my claim expired in May 2014, which is true if I was on regular not medical, super awesome finding that out). I called them and 0 sympathy. I hadn't eaten and was telling the operator that the system was leaving me in the lurch like this. She was kind enough to go off script and insinuate I should stop being lazy and get a job if I want food. I kinda lost my cool and told her to go fuck herself.
    So if I wanted my EI I would have to go back to work. If I wanted to do that I would need to get a doctor to say I could go back. It took 3 months to get one to say I couldn't work. I had not even gotten into a pretreatment program. I was still waiting. My EI money, that I get because I fucking worked and paid into it. I was not allowed it because I wasn't working. I wasn't working because I was seeking treatment for a mental illness that keeps me from being an effective employee.
    So luckily there is Ontario works. Where I get $626 a month. I pay $400 a month for an all inclusive place which is insanely cheap. My mentall illness means that I am in fight or flight most of the day. I have to live off of $226 a month. The stress from having to live off of so little ensures that I am in overdrive trying to think of a way out of the situation. I cannot seek employment because it would both not work out within a few months and doing so would end the benefits I am using to seek treatment. I cannot get paid myself because my pay is obligated to those I owe debts to. Debts I took because I was going to be a big shot programmer without PTSD BPD and Bipolar disorder. Turns out that I'm not that and now I can't make good. But I can't declare bankruptcy because that costs $1800. So until I go ahead and come up with that much money no bankruptcy trustee is going to help me. I am too poor to declare bankruptcy. Soo I can't earn money, I can't be lent money and I come from poverty so anyone who I could ask for money has very little money.
    This all culminated in a very interesting episode a few months ago. I went full manic. The constant day to day stress has pushed me into a very very manic episode. I can't fall asleep often times, I am up for hours and hours doing anything that I think will help my condition. I have become completely withdrawn. I do not have the will power to fight the social anxiety. As such I can't market any of the skills or work that I do. My therapist knows this, my councilor knows this and they have no help for me. They schedule the next appointment and in the meantime I spin and spin and spin.
    I get more manic as time passes. It is breaking my view of Canadian society. I was just a little fucking boy who wanted to make video games. I lived through the beatings, I lived through the teasings, I lived through attempts on my own life. I went to school and I did everything I was told you were supposed to do if you wanted to not live in impoverished hell. But it gets into your brain, it breaks you.
    And I feel like a dirty secret. I'm offensive, people don't like what I have to say and how I think. I'm too angry, too naive, too ideological, too unclear, too stupid, too ranty. If I act how I feel then I am ridiculed. People like me best when I parrot their desires and don't upset them. When I pretend like I don't have a mental illness.
    Me existing means Canada is so fucked up that it is possible to grow up in an average community and come out with fucking post traumatic stress disorder. I wasn't abducted, I wasn't imprisoned. I grew up in fucking Lambton county in southern Ontario.
    This woman killed herself for the same reason I make attempts on my own life. You guys collectively make life not worth living in this country. You partisan mother fuckers. It always has to have some fucking angle, some reason. Anything that would change my condition is so fucking politicized as to be impossible. We have let the financial economy creep into everything. Meaning if you want to participate in society is becomes a reflection of your ability to show restraint. If you spend money too much you are a fool, too little you don't get to participate. If you have no money you are unwelcome. I can't afford to fucking regularly go get a god damn coffee. I instead need to make the economical decision to stay in my little fucking room and drink my grinds because I can get enough cups for $8 a month. To even get 1 coffee a day that I could share with other humans in a room would cost 23% of my spare income.
    All of this pushes me out to the fringes, and because I have no ability to fight back no one listens. I stopped caring who knows I am suicidal no one can help me. Because when people try they just show how hilariously ignorant they are to my condition. Anyone I have ever met who is empathetic enough is also too crazy to help.
    TL;DR There is no such thing as community for many Canadians, those who are mentally ill are exceptionally ostracized. Inequality and politics hamper recovery and increase this ostracization. So long as politics and inequality rule Canadian communities increasingly more mentally ill and those who are affected by them will kill themselves

    http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comme...due_to/ch1came
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  10. #50
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    One of the greatest sufferings of those with a mental illness is loneliness.

    And as the greatest generosity is attention, one of the greatest gifts we can give a person suffering mental illness is to pay full and undivided attention to them.

    R.D.Laing was a genius at paying attention to those suffering a psychosis, and Simone Weil gave her full and undivided attention to those who are suffering.

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