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  1. #61
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    his culture is insanely direct
    I wasn't there long to fully get a grip on it, but in Taiwan they're very direct, even with your physical appearance like, "You from America? You have fat cheeks." Or in my case of course "You very handsome, johnnyyukon!" haha

    But really, and in Korea I think it's worse. Like, if you're nose is crooked or you're too fat, they'll let you know.

    I don't think it's meant to be insulting, per se (like I said, didn't get full understanding) but more just getting it out in the open.

  2. #62
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    @Antisocial one relayed back in the day that his culture is insanely direct, that they would run circles around Americans in that respect.

    (And then bluntly tell them that they were running circles around them? Running circles rather than dancing circles? I dunno, someone should do something with that.)

    It was an interesting read. Too bad I forgot everything about it, including his country. Oops.

    I always find this, in contrast, also interesting: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof
    omg
    T'aarof also governs the rules of hospitality: a host is obliged to offer anything a guest might want, and a guest is equally obliged to refuse it. This ritual may repeat itself several times before the host and guest finally determine whether the host's offer and the guest's refusal are real or simply polite. It is possible to ask someone not to t'aarof ("t'aarof nakonid"), but that raises new difficulties, since the request itself might be a devious type of t'aarof.
    that's like deciding where to eat with someone. or offering to pay someone back. As soon as they go, oh don't worry about it. I go ok. But then do something nice for them at a later date, like buy them dinner or something. I don't care to go back and forth
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #63
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    @Antisocial one relayed back in the day that his culture is insanely direct, that they would run circles around Americans in that respect.

    (And then bluntly tell them that they were running circles around them? Running circles rather than dancing circles? I dunno, someone should do something with that.)

    It was an interesting read. Too bad I forgot everything about it, including his country. Oops.

    I always find this, in contrast, also interesting: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof
    omg
    T'aarof also governs the rules of hospitality: a host is obliged to offer anything a guest might want, and a guest is equally obliged to refuse it. This ritual may repeat itself several times before the host and guest finally determine whether the host's offer and the guest's refusal are real or simply polite. It is possible to ask someone not to t'aarof ("t'aarof nakonid"), but that raises new difficulties, since the request itself might be a devious type of t'aarof.
    that's like deciding where to eat with someone. or offering to pay someone back. As soon as they go, oh don't worry about it. I go ok. But then do something nice for them at a later date, like buy them dinner or something. I don't care to go back and forth
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #64
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Being direct is likely to activate someone's psychological defences, this is actually rude, it's bad manners, and is completely counterproductive to understanding.

    Being direct is like taking control of someone and directing their response. So being direct is itself a social defence.

    And unless we are limited to one liners like the Americans, humour itself is indirect.

    Also being indirect is way of building trust over time.

    And being indirect requires a subtlety and skill.

  5. #65
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Being direct is likely to activate someone's psychological defences, this is actually rude, it's bad manners,
    I don't know if you watch Hannibal, but if you're rude to him, he kills you and eats you. He's very big on manners.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I don't know if you watch Hannibal, but if you're rude to him, he kills you and eats you. He's very big on manners.
    Hannibal from Cathage in the Mediterranean opposite Rome, was direct with Rome. Hannibal was rude to Rome, and indeed humiliated Rome, and Rome never forgot.

    Cato the Elder, the great Roman Senator, finished all his speeches with Cathago delenda est (Cathage must be destroyed).

    So the Romans sailed across to Cathage, killed every man, woman and child, and every beast and bird. Then the Romans destroyed the city of Cathage stone by stone until nothing remained, then they sowed the fields around the city with salt.

    So when you are tempted to be direct, remember Cathago delenda est.

  7. #67
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    So when you are tempted to be direct, remember Cathago delenda est.
    Haha, that I will. But are you aware I was speaking of Hannibal Lecter? Not sure if the fictional character was named after the general or not.

    Also the brilliant (though fictitious) parable of Pai Mei:

    Once upon a time......in China......some believe around the year......one double aught-three....head priest of the White Lotus Clan, Pai Mei, was walking down a road......contemplating whatever it is that a man of Pai Mei's infinite powers would contemplate -which is another way of saying, "Who knows?"
    -when a Shaolin monk appeared on the road,
    traveling in the opposite direction.

    As the monk and the priest
    crossed paths......Pai Mei......in a practically unfathomable
    display of generosity,
    gave the monk the slightest of nods.

    The nod...
    ...was not returned.

    Now, was it the intention
    of the Shaolin monk to insult Pai Mei?
    Or did he just fail to see
    the generous social gesture?

    The motives of the monk
    remain unknown.
    What is known...
    ...were the consequences.

    The next morning, Pai Mei
    appeared at the Shaolin temple...
    ...and demanded
    of the temple's head abbot
    that he offer Pai Mei his neck
    to repay the insult.

    The abbot, at first,
    tried to console Pai Mei.
    Only to find Pai Mei was...

    ...inconsolable.

    So began...

    ...the Massacre of the Shaolin Temple,
    and all sixty of the monks inside,
    at the fists of the White Lotus.

  8. #68
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Being indirect can allow the other person to save face.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #69
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Being indirect can allow the other person to save face.
    which translate to: "I'm a pussy, so i'm gonna lie to you and tell you how I didn't mean what I said, even though I did, and I still think what I said"
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #70
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    which translate to: "I'm a pussy, so i'm gonna lie to you and tell you how I didn't mean what I said, even though I did, and I still think what I said"
    If the person does not get what is being communicated to them, then it does not work.

    If they do get it, they can make a course correction without having whatever stupid shit they were doing thrown straight into their face, which can be a bit gentler.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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