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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default In the Poetic Psyche the Lover Becomes the Beloved

    Poetic thinking is different from normal thinking.

    Normal thinking is interested in thinking about while poetic thinking is interested in being.

    So in poetic thinking the thinker and the thought collapse into one, so the thinker disappears into the thought just as you disappear in that sweet moment of juissance.

    But you soon reappear and seek another moment of disappearance - that is why it is called, "the little death" or "la petite mort".

    We die and we come to life to long to die once again. And this is the secret of happiness - alternance.

    And alternance is the secret of poetry. We move from our awake state - our normal state of mind - from our ego - into the words themselves. So we are no longer talking about things, we are things - just as the lover becomes the beloved.

    But then we wake and ask ourselves, what does it all mean?

    Until we loose all meaning once again in juissance.
    Last edited by Mole; 07-25-2008 at 10:32 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Poetic thinking is different from normal thinking.

    Normal thinking is interested in thinking about while poetic thinking is interested in being.

    So in poetic thinking the thinker and the thought collapse into one, so the thinker disappears into the thought just as you disappear in that sweet moment of juissance.

    But you soon reappear and seek another moment of disappearance - that is why it is called, "the little death" or "la petite mort".

    We die and we come to life to long to die once again. And this is the secret of happiness - alternance.

    And alternance is the secret of poetry. We move from our awake state - our normal state of mind - from our ego - into the words themselves. So we are no longer talking about things, we are things - just as the lover becomes the beloved.

    But then we wake and ask ourselves, what does it all mean?

    Until we loose all meaning once again in juissance.
    Why not just come out and say what you really mean, Victor.

  3. #3
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    Default Repunzel

    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post
    Why not just come out and say what you really mean, Victor.
    What a good question, Clueless.

    It's true, I hide in delight, I hide in juissance but then I poke my head around the corner - and there I am - asking what it all means.

    There is a sense in which you are right, Clueless - I play ducks and drakes with meaning because meaning requires a background - and the perfect background for meaning is meaninglessness. And luckily I can visit meaninglessness and come back.

    And so the foreground I am painting is meaning, while the background is meaninglessness.

    But most of all is that moment of delight, that moment of juissance, as I pass between meaning and meaninglessness. Who can blame me for seeking it again and again?

    And you have a grand obsession - you believe, no you see, that everyone is fake and phoney - everyone is wearing a mask - everyone is lying all the time.

    Nothing can shake you from this obsession, not love and not logic.

    You are Repunzel who can't let down her hair.

  4. #4
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm not seeing the difference between poetic thinking and "normal" thinking.

    I understand that poetic thinking can be seen as self satisfying, but the goal of poetic creation is still there.

    The creative aspect of poetic thought is what separates it from simple intellectual masturbation.

    When you say alternance is the secret of poetry do you mean that the goal of poetry is to convey the moment of alternance into eternity, or only that the pursuit of alternance is the source of poetry?
    wails from the crypt.

  5. #5
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    Default

    Why do I never catch these threads when they arrive!?

    This topic has been in my head for months, thinking it couldn't be put into words.

    Thank you for articulating my mind again, Ted.
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    Why do I never catch these threads when they arrive!?

    This topic has been in my head for months, thinking it couldn't be put into words.

    Thank you for articulating my mind again, Ted.
    It does seem we have similar minds, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised when we think the same thoughts.

    I do find it comforting to find you feel and think in a similar way.

    It is quite amazing and I find it not only comforting but gives me more confidence.

    Ted.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    I'm not seeing the difference between poetic thinking and "normal" thinking.

    I understand that poetic thinking can be seen as self satisfying, but the goal of poetic creation is still there.

    The creative aspect of poetic thought is what separates it from simple intellectual masturbation.

    When you say alternance is the secret of poetry do you mean that the goal of poetry is to convey the moment of alternance into eternity, or only that the pursuit of alternance is the source of poetry?
    It's hard to describe - its more like hearing the difference than seeing the difference - so it is more like the difference between seeing and hearing.

    And you are quite right, the end result, the goal is a creation. But when you are making something, it doesn't seem like you are making something, it is more like you are listening and writing it down without effort.

    And alternance is more like movement. The movement between hearing the words and seeing what they mean. And so you dance between hearing and seeing.

    It is very hard to describe. I would like to be able to tell you to do this then do that and see what the difference is between them. I would like to be able to show you the distinction between this and that. The best I can suggest is that you pay attention. And as you pay attention, your reward will be to see the difference and hear the distinction.

    A metaphor is a comparison of relationships. So I am really trying to show you the inside of a metaphor but without much luck.

    Perhaps I will do better next time.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    I'm not seeing the difference between poetic thinking and "normal" thinking.

    I understand that poetic thinking can be seen as self satisfying, but the goal of poetic creation is still there.

    The creative aspect of poetic thought is what separates it from simple intellectual masturbation.

    When you say alternance is the secret of poetry do you mean that the goal of poetry is to convey the moment of alternance into eternity, or only that the pursuit of alternance is the source of poetry?
    My Ni and Fi "think" in images and sounds and sensations. If I put this into words it becomes poetic language. Poetry is - for me - the language of my heart [Fi] and soul [Ni]. Actually poetic language is a more accurate discription than poetry. Some of what I do could be thought of as freeform poetry but I ususally use terms like poetic ramblings or random artistic words.

    For me describing things poetically is not necessarily creative. That is how the words come out automatically. The challange is taking it from poetic langauge to plain langauge that people might understand.

    An example:
    My mind shows certain images, sounds, sensation, to convey a feeling. I TRANSLATE this into words: Dark clouds gather. Thunder rumbles in the distance. Lightening flashes in the distant horizon. The clouds hang heavy with the possibity of rain. Then I TRANSLATE this AGAIN into plain language: I feel very irritable right now. Loosing my temper or crying is a distinct possibility.

    This was an easy example for a relatively straight forward feeling. Complex feeling and matters of the Ni are much more involved and it is often hard for me to translate a second time.

    Each translation loses something. The plain words do not fully convey the depth of what I feel. Sometimes no plain words seem to fit. But if I don't do this people accuse me of being deliberately obscure - of taking plain words and putting them into hard to understand words. No amount of explaination can convince them that it isn't true.

    Ilah

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    Thank you for articulating my mind again, Ted.
    Why do you insist upon calling him Ted?

    Victor, why does s/he call you Ted? Why do you call yourself Ted? Your name is Victor, or so I thought.

    Changing your name yet again?

  10. #10
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post
    Why do you insist upon calling him Ted?

    Victor, why does s/he call you Ted? Why do you call yourself Ted? Your name is Victor, or so I thought.

    Changing your name yet again?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post233550
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

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