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Relationship b/w Anger & Sadness

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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I've been thinking about this a lot lately and have made a few observations, but the thing that gets me is the exact relationship between the two. As I see it now, anger is a reaction to sadness in the majority, if not all cases. I believe that things trigger sad moods in us, anger arises as a technique to push away the sadness, and we use our anger to "touch" that sadness thereby deflating the anger, either by exposing sadness in someone else and reflecting it, or by needling our own feelings. So, my hypothesis is that anger is a way to distance the subject from depression/sadness.

The prime example is with abusive relationships. Guys gets abandonment anxiety. Abandonment depression (sadness) is looming, so he feels anger inside. The anger is generalized, but finds targets to project on. He could be angry at his dog, his kids, or his wife. The wife is the prime target being the source of the anger. He uses the anger to create sadness in his wife, reflects on that sadness (via mirror neurons) and touches his own sadness. The anger dissipates, since the depression and sadness has been reached and the anger no longer serves a purpose. He can then function alongside the depression instead of trying to avoid it, and is free to be himself without the worry and anxiety, and strengthen his relationship (honeymooning) until the next episode. Thoughts? Additions?
 

disregard

mrs
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How about you ask some specific questions.

That would get the ball rolling.
 

heart

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So Edahn you are saying that the guy creates a sad situation in order to avoid dreading the development of a sad situation?
 

01011010

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Actually, the few times I've truly been angry had nothing to do with holding off sadness or any other combination thereof.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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How about you ask some specific questions.

That would get the ball rolling.

Why do people get angry?

How does one resolve anger?

Are these two questions related?

So Edahn you are saying that the guy creates a sad situation in order to avoid dreading the development of a sad situation?

Kind of. I'm saying that he doesn't know how to express his own sadness, or maybe "reach" his own sadness, pain, and worry. So what he does is create it in another person, then reflect it, and alleviate everything.
 

disregard

mrs
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Why do people get angry?

How does one resolve anger?

Are these two questions related?

I'll speak for myself:

I get angry when I feel powerless or hurt. I will express anger if I'm irritated, but it's less common and far less passionate.

I can effectively resolve my anger by putting things in perspective.

If I were to acknowledge that I do have control (options) in every situation and that I don't have to choose to feel hurt or offended by looking at it in a new way (from, for instance, the other person's POV, which takes guts), then I could sidestep becoming angry in the first place.
 

Totenkindly

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I think anger usually comes out of hurt.
Sadness obviously comes out of hurt too.

Anger is a defense mechanism meant to protect one in times of hurt; the hurt is a threat to self; anger empowers one to push back against the threat, perhaps even neutralize it.

Sadness is a natural response to hurt; we've lost something, we feel less than we were; we are powerless to do anything about it; we feel sad.

I mentioned being angry and sad at the religious protesters yesterday. Part of it is that I found their behavior destructive and threatening to people's ultimate well-being, and especially in a way I saw as a contradiction, so I was angry; but I was also sad because I saw their own behavior as destructive to them as people, not just the people they were aggressive towards, and I understand that to attack them was to hurt them (which wasn't my ultimate goal), and I was powerless to make them do anything different.

All I could do was grieve; but that's a hard feeling to endure, and there was always a temptation to feel powerful by getting angry and lashing out instead. People who are insecure or fearful in the core level have trouble experiencing the vulnerability brought on by sadness and usually will resort to anger to relieve the anxiety and pain.

I agree with your example of abusive men. They are afraid to feel the vulnerability that comes with sadness. So not only is anger an emotion that creates a sense of power (the energy gives them both drive and efficacy), but they experience the power by being aggressive against others and succeeding in affecting them, and when the women experiences sadness, he can experience her vulnerability vicariously without feeling vulnerable himself.

Situation is resolved for him.

If the cycle can be broken, the pattern stops working and things have to change somehow.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Anger gives a person energy. Sadness takes it away.

Anger is usually directed outward, while sadness is directed inward.

Therefore sadness is a reaction to pain without wanting to do anything about it, while anger is a reaction to pain that desires to do something to the source of pain.
 

Giggly

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I have thought about this a lot too. It does seem to me that most anger stems from sadness, depression or low self-esteem. Except I think that when people experience sadness, depression or low self-esteem, it causes them to be very hard (read: mean) to themselves or to others. It gets discharged in a negative fashion no matter what by either being very harsh on themselves or on others. Which of the two ways a person chooses to discharge these feelings depends on the individual person and each person is different. The people who discharge their sadness on themselves seem to be the self-loathing, always down on themselves, sad, never think they're good enough, wish they were someone else kinds of folks. The people who discharge their sadness on others tend to treat others in a mean, nasty, callous, cold, vindictive, no one else is as good as me, and/or hateful ways. I am in the former group, but I can honestly say that one method is not better than the other. They both suck equally just in different ways. Obviously, the best way to deal with these emotions is to learn how to not discharge them on yourself or others, and find other ways to discharge them.
 

INTJMom

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I have heard psychologists say that depression is "anger turned inward".
 

substitute

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Interesting theories Edahn, but nothing I relate to. Either I'm a total freak, or it's just you that works that way. Or some other, third thing.

In a way I see anger as a sort of neurosis. It's when the world somehow fails to live up to your expectations, and rather than accept and adapt, you rant and rave against it, and the longer reality refuses to bend to your will, the angrier you get.

Of course, I don't get angry much, cos I actually do control reality.:SaiyanSmilie_anim:
 

hiddengem

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People who are insecure or fearful in the core level have trouble experiencing the vulnerability brought on by sadness and usually will resort to anger to relieve the anxiety and pain.

This really resonated with me on a personal level. Which in turn is responsible for my opinions as stated below. :blush:

Why do people get angry?

I think a lot of anger is really fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of people or ideas that are different, fear of our own emotions.

How does one resolve anger?

I don't think many people do. They see someone else or something else as the cause and therefore don't realize that they have issues that should be addressed. A "It's not my problem, but their problem" attitude.

In addition, I think society teaches that anger is a violent/negative emotion that should be avoided, especially in women.
 

CzeCze

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As I see it now, anger is a reaction to sadness in the majority, if not all cases. I believe that things trigger sad moods in us, anger arises as a technique to push away the sadness, and we use our anger to "touch" that sadness thereby deflating the anger, either by exposing sadness in someone else and reflecting it, or by needling our own feelings.
QUOTE]

I agree partially but my assessment is different.

Sadness is a result of issues you feel you cannot control. That loss of control and feeling bad create a feeling of helplessness and can throw you off balance. Helplessness = sad.

Anger is a misplaced attempt by your psyche to stand up for yourself and 'take back' the situation. However, the anger is usually not 'rationally' justified (can you really be mad at the universe and 'make' it do anything?) and is taken out on undeserving parties. Or comes out passive-aggressive or plain destructive.

A very dangerous combination is a feeling of entitlement coupled with anger/sadness. Basically feeling that somehow your happiness (and internal value) was robbed from you because of [fill in the blank] Not helpful.

Extreme feelings of entitlement make people feel EXTREMELY PISSED that they are feeling sad. Because they feel they should live a blessed life.

Otherwise, I don't think anger/sadness necessarily follows one path. Sometimes it's the anger first, sometimes sadness -- it's almost impossible to cleanly delineate and trace feelings and measure them against the other.

Anger makes you sad partly because of simple chemical reactions. Anger really depletes a lot of energy, it leaves you feeling drained. It takes away your psychic buffer and protective mechanisms that let you not feel the disappointments, hurt, etc. that we all have experienced and carry inside ourselves to some extent. After you get realy angry and release some negative emotion, you're simply too tired to lie to yourself anymore about how you feel.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Interesting responses so far.

One of the keys to this mystery is how anger deflects anxiety. They're incompatible, such that anger forces anxiety out. People seek refuge in their anger because, I think, it leads to self-sufficiency, which cuts a person's attachments, and therefore, their anxieties. I think the self-sufficiency has to do with staring down depression and not being afraid to confront it. You're already there, and that's probably why you got angry in the first place. (CzeCze, I still think that in most cases, pain precedes anger, not vice versa.) You can sense this in people who have been depressed or who are currently depressed. They're very aggressive with their humor, tone, and/or body language because they're not as afraid of getting rejected or experiencing discomfort. They have a certain familiarity with it that others want to avoid. So, they can make all sorts of threats that steer the interaction towards crisis and rely on the other person to compromise.
 

CzeCze

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They have a certain familiarity with it that others want to avoid. So, they can make all sorts of threats that steer the interaction towards crisis and rely on the other person to compromise.

Actually, I think that is both a cry for help and also a sign that they're losing perspective. It can also be a misguided source of pride, a badge of honor, and revealing a chip on their shoulder.

Once your mindset is always negative, angry, and sad -- you can't help but spit it out at others. You don't quite realize how harsh or socially inappropriate it is. I think you also want someone to realize how much distress you are in and honestly just give you a hug and an ear. Basically you want other people to help you feel better. Also, when you're really bad off, you can't but help find humor in it. It's bitter humor.

I think partly it's the 'misery loves company' idea too, except that in this case, people want to make you feel just as bad as them.

All 'moods' more or less are self-absorbed and spread. When you're happy and in a good mood, you naturally spread that good mood around. When you're tense, you spread that energy around and can make other people stressed. Etc.

There is an ugly violent quality about some anger/sadness that does not sit well with me. I think when you get so wrapped up in your own issues and pain/anger, that you begin to develop your self-identity around it. You try to make yourself feel better, but instead of addressing the root issue, you begin to take pride in how depressed/angry/sad you are. I.E. How 'tough minded' and 'realistic' etc. you are compared to all those other silly people who are happy for no reason. You also can get resentful and get a chip on your shoulder. You get very self-absorbed and have this assumption that if only other mere mortals knew how bad you had it, they would be awed, destroyed, or just supremely sympathetic to you.

Wrong.

However, your mental state can get twisted with pain/anger to the point you want to lash out at others.

I think anger/sadness are primal emotions and they can really knock out all the social/psychological/psychic tools and buffers mature adults create for themselves. Chronic sadness/anger the way you describe can make you revert to a more infantile, vulnerable state, possibly following Maslow's hierarchy. You simply are focusing on just getting by emotionally day by day.
 

CzeCze

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You can sense this in people who have been depressed or who are currently depressed. They're very aggressive with their humor, tone, and/or body language because they're not as afraid of getting rejected or experiencing discomfort. They have a certain familiarity with it that others want to avoid. So, they can make all sorts of threats that steer the interaction towards crisis and rely on the other person to compromise.

Also -- I'm not sure what kind/how many 'depressed' people you know. I have a friend whose been clinically depressed and has been on a cocktail of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds for years. She's the opposite of aggressive, extremely timid and nervous and she knows this. So does everyone else who knows her. She does blurt out VERY socially inappropriate things sometimes related to her depression, but she's also INTP. LOL.

Again, I think chronically depressed people can become aggressive when they are crying out for help or the other way around.

Truly depressed people give up, let themselves go, and fall off the grid.

Sometimes, it looks 'aggressive' to see someone let themselves go to such an extent and seem flippant about social mores. It's not aggression, IMO, they're just too far gone to realize where the boundaries of 'normal' are anymore.
 

INTJMom

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In a way I see anger as a sort of neurosis. It's when the world somehow fails to live up to your expectations, and rather than accept and adapt, you rant and rave against it, and the longer reality refuses to bend to your will, the angrier you get.
Of course, I don't get angry much, cos I actually do control reality.:SaiyanSmilie_anim:
I see a lot of truth in what you have said.
 

INTJMom

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Why do people get angry?

How does one resolve anger?
...
I don't have time to go into a great big essay, so let me just say that I am just addressing ONE ASPECT of anger for ME.

When I experience anger as depression, it usually means that I am HURT in some way.
The way I resolve that anger is to GRIEVE the loss I feel, by going through the Grieving Process. If a person has hurt me, I have to forgive them as part of that process. At the end, I am recovered and am able to invest in life again.
 

phoenix13

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I like this thread a lot. I'm gonna approach this from a neuroscientific perspective and say that fear, anger, sadness, depression, etc. are not specific or stereotypical to any complex situation. The experience and expression of emotion is mediated by the amygdala. In addition to sensory stimuli, it also recieves input from all over the neocortex, including the "higher" brain regions involved in learning and memory, motivation, reasoning, blah blah. This input makes it highly dependent on personal experience, such that Situation X could make Person 1 angry, and have no effect whatsoever on Person 2.

Shortcut: The neural projections to and from the amygdala are complex and personalized. Therefore, you're not going to be able to come up with a stereotypical pathway that arouses fear/anger/sadness in 90% of the human population (again, I'm refering to experiences beyond the instinctive: "Dude's pointing a gun to my head. I feel fear."). Yeah, just wanted to bring a physical POV to the varying sources and reactions to anger, etc.

Now, I shall try once again to sleep through my insomnia. :(
 

INTJMom

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I like this thread a lot. I'm gonna approach this from a neuroscientific perspective and say that fear, anger, sadness, depression, etc. are not specific or stereotypical to any complex situation. The experience and expression of emotion is mediated by the amygdala. In addition to sensory stimuli, it also recieves input from all over the neocortex, including the "higher" brain regions involved in learning and memory, motivation, reasoning, blah blah. This input makes it highly dependent on personal experience, such that Situation X could make Person 1 angry, and have no effect whatsoever on Person 2.

Shortcut: The neural projections to and from the amygdala are complex and personalized. Therefore, you're not going to be able to come up with a stereotypical pathway that arouses fear/anger/sadness in 90% of the human population (again, I'm refering to experiences beyond the instinctive: "Dude's pointing a gun to my head. I feel fear."). Yeah, just wanted to bring a physical POV to the varying sources and reactions to anger, etc.

Now, I shall try once again to sleep through my insomnia. :(
Sorry about your insomnia.
Have you tried milk? :)
 
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