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  1. #1
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Default being willing to being wrong

    there's something that frustrates me still about this topic. i feel resistant to allowing others to choose for me, but part of that is simply that i don't always realize the responsibility to choose for myself.

    being willing to being wrong is the willingness to stay with yourself when you no longer agree with the choice you have made. it is a fundamental commitment you have to make as a person. only through that can you truly respect yourself as a real person. only through that commitment to both know yourself and to let go of yourself can you continue beyond yourself. it is the relationship you have to commit to in order to truly accept what you can control and let go of the rest. it is the way you both accept and challenge yourself at the same time, how you can be both what you are and what you are not at the same time.

  2. #2
    WALMART
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    Yeah. Nice.

  3. #3
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    being willing to being wrong is the willingness to stay with yourself when you no longer agree with the choice you have made.
    Yeah! never thought of it that way... rather than back-pedaling, you are owning that it is YOU that made that mistake or choice, and YOU that has to deal with the fallout... and maybe a little bit of grace
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  4. #4
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    It is strange how we (humans) tend to attach some fundamental value to the condition of being right, instead of attaching that value directly to information itself- as if it makes us more valuable as individual beings to have correct information. In a way it does, I guess- it can give us credibility in others' eyes when our judgment is sound. But it's generally obvious to other people when we're more attached to the condition of being right than we are interested in distilling the most correct information. So being attached to the condition of being right for the value it brings socially- instead of having that drive for the sake of itself (to be able to trust oneself to know what's correct, rather than to 'be' that person in others' eyes)- is doomed to backfire?

    /might be wrong
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  5. #5
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    fear of being wrong can hold you back in life. inability to admit when you're wrong prevents you from growing. attempting and failing is the only way to move forward, the way i see it.

    i've found the more wrong i am, the more i've learned from that situation. i'll never forget the lessons i've learned by getting it wrong, and i'm grateful for them.

    it's so important for me to feel responsible and accountable for my decisions. it gives me a sense of freedom and empowerment that i'm pretty sure i actually *need*.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  6. #6
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    It is strange how we (humans) tend to attach some fundamental value to the condition of being right, instead of attaching that value directly to information itself- as if it makes us more valuable as individual beings to have correct information. In a way it does, I guess- it can give us credibility in others' eyes when our judgment is sound. But it's generally obvious to other people when we're more attached to the condition of being right than we are interested in distilling the most correct information. So being attached to the condition of being right for the value it brings socially- instead of having that drive for the sake of itself (to be able to trust oneself to know what's correct, rather than to 'be' that person in others' eyes)- is doomed to backfire?

    /might be wrong
    There's a difference between wishing to develop a reputation for reliability, and wishing to "always be right".

    Wanting to always be right, insofar as it is a reaction to a situation, has nothing to do with being right and everything to do with wanting to maintain appearances of being right, so as to get one's way with others. If wanting to be right is instead expressed as diligence, as properly verifying one's facts, and keeping abreast of the knowledge one needs to maintain, that is quite another thing. It can appear to be emotionally reactive as the former, on occasion, but it arises not from an egotistical reaction so much as one's investment in acquiring and maintaining that relevant knowledge.

    Personally, I strive to develop a reputation for reliability because it keeps others from trying to micromanage my affairs. It has nothing to do with wanting to be recognized as superior in any way, and everything to do with getting my work done with minimum fuss and bother. Rely upon normal procedure to analyze and find errors in my work, not nosiness and micromanagement.

    In terms of decision-making and analysis, I prefer that my views and opinions be challenged. An unfortunate side-effect of being an expert (in whatever field) is that others can start to assume that you're the expert, and any disagreement they might have is disqualified because they value your expertise over their own judgment. I would rather hear an unqualified opinion from a different perspective: people forget that we're all experts in our own fields, and as such we have knowledge to contribute to each other. If I'm writing loan software, I need to defer to loan experts on how the rules should work, and to loan officers on how the workflow should proceed, and to the IT staff on what servers are available for installation, and so on.

    In a more humorous vein, my attitude is kind of like this:



    Now, work the logic of that quote backwards. The reason I care about being right is because it saves me time, it makes things easier to do them correctly the first time through, instead of running around in circles trying to put out fires. I also try to extend this beyond my own personal sphere: I try to make things happen right the first time so that it not only saves me time, but saves time for everyone else around me. Interestingly, these kinds of efforts are often largely invisible to those whom they help, because it's about saving opportunity costs, as opposed to, say, being the miracle worker who, when a disaster strikes, finds the problem and fixes it quickly. To my mind, if I'm the wizard who fixes things quickly, it's probably because I made the mistake that caused the disaster in the first place, which is why I know how to fix it so quickly ...
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #7
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    I guess the question is: do we want to win an argument or do we wish to make a friend?

  8. #8
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    being willing to being wrong is the willingness to stay with yourself when you no longer agree with the choice you have made. it is a fundamental commitment you have to make as a person.
    '
    I don't understand this. It sounds like willful ignorance - clinging to poor choices even once you have realized your error. Did you mean something else?

    I don't like to be wrong, but that motivates me to adjust my opinions in the face of conflicting evidence. I will abandon a position shown to be wrong, or at least adjust my position to account for the new information. Anything else is just self-delusion, or just plain lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Now, work the logic of that quote backwards. The reason I care about being right is because it saves me time, it makes things easier to do them correctly the first time through, instead of running around in circles trying to put out fires. I also try to extend this beyond my own personal sphere: I try to make things happen right the first time so that it not only saves me time, but saves time for everyone else around me. Interestingly, these kinds of efforts are often largely invisible to those whom they help, because it's about saving opportunity costs, as opposed to, say, being the miracle worker who, when a disaster strikes, finds the problem and fixes it quickly. To my mind, if I'm the wizard who fixes things quickly, it's probably because I made the mistake that caused the disaster in the first place, which is why I know how to fix it so quickly ...
    This is how I operate as well. As for the highlighted, when the efforts are not invisible, they are often dismissed as unnecessary. The fact that this behavior precipitates crises is, unfortunately, not enough to cure the attitude for the next time.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #9
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    ok so basically if I make a mistake, and i could die because of it and I realize it was the wrong choice I should stick with it? that's bullshit

    now if it's an argument and someone has emperical facts I want to see reliable studies and data then i'll accept i was wrong.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #10
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    '
    I don't understand this. It sounds like willful ignorance - clinging to poor choices even once you have realized your error. Did you mean something else?
    I believe state meant (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) it's about learning to be open enough to realize the error sooner- to commit to just *being* (in a dasein kind of way- "to stay with yourself") instead of committing to the idea/narrative that you're having/forming?
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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