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  1. #91
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    true, not true, is based on context.

  2. #92
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Will add something more detailed later -- but in the meantime --

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Even we Te types have to learn this lesson - the difference is that we learn it when fairly young. You have an elder say to you, "You're wrong." It hurts. It's like the end of the world. You can't figure out what you're wrong about. But if you keep interacting, you end up noting the consistency: the reason "you're wrong" is not because of you, per se, but because of what you're talking about. If you express knowledge about a topic, it is either correct or incorrect (or a mix, depending on how extensive the expression of your understanding is). You eventually figure out that "being wrong" has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with checking "what you know" against "the truth", and realizing that it's an iterative process. The elder isn't right because he's the smartest person around, it isn't about any of his personal qualities, he's right precisely because what he says matches reality on an objective basis. Being right is measured against reality, not against personal qualities.
    Holy crap yes. So much +1

    Having been raised primarily in the company of Fe-users -- Fe parents, Fe friends -- it has actually been freeing to associate more with Te-users as time has gone on, for exactly the reasons you stated. It feels like coming into your own, reaching your fullest Te potential, as well as (obviously) the "click" that comes with encountering people who speak your language.

    It's like jumping into a lake in the summertime -- the impact and the cold are pretty shocking at first, but then it feels a m a z i n g .
    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'm not sure it's worth trying to iron out the communication misfire- if that's even what's happening- because if that isn't what's happening it's totally available to disagree about it anyway.
    I'd see it as saving the effort of future similar communication breakdowns -- "agreeing to disagree" makes much more sense when you understand the side you're disagreeing with. But that's just me.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #93
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This reminds me of a real work situation, in an Fe-ish work environment.
    "Yes. If you aren't in the computer room, people won't think you're working to fix the problem."

    You Fe types out there, if you cannot see how absurd this is, please let me know why the above makes sense to you.

    (There was also a strong Si element, too, in that office, so it might not just be Fe. I'm putting this up for feedback, based on my personal impressions, not to denigrate any particular type.)
    I learned this when I was a clerk-typist age 19. The office would be crazy, very very active, people rushing around, wanting things, I would be working my behind off. Then there would be a lull. Occasionally during a lull, I would pick up a magazine and skim through it. The supervisor would poke her head in and say hi. Then things would go back to ripping and tearing.

    Surprise, surprise, when I got my evaluation, it was horrible. All I ever did was look at magazines at my desk.

    So I asked the supervisor if she would play a game with me for 1 month -- would she make a new rule that she would look over our work before it went out, so that the other clerk-typist and I had to put our finals in a folder for review before we gave them out to be signed.

    At the end of this period, I got an apology, a revised review, and a raise. Because the letter that she would see the other girl typing during the lulls when I was thumbing through a magazine was the same letter she started on at 8 am that morning. Meanwhile I had done the rest of the work for the entire day.

    So yeah. Look busy. Rule 1 of How To Survive In An Office.

    But also, when there is a problem, people need to see with their own 2 eyes that someone competent is fixing it. It calms them down.

    ETA: Morale is important.

  4. #94
    garbage
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This reminds me of a real work situation, in an Fe-ish work environment. This was back in the old days, and the company was using Novell Netware. It had crashed, and so I went into the computer room and started the process to restore from backup. I then went back to my office to work on other projects.

    My supervisor said, "<uumlau>, you need to be in the computer room."

    "The restore from backup is running. When it's done, everything will be working."

    "I know. But you still need to be in the computer room."
    [...]
    (There was also a strong Si element, too, in that office, so it might not just be Fe. I'm putting this up for feedback, based on my personal impressions, not to denigrate any particular type.)
    When I was a contractor for a government agency on some specific project, the higher-ups wanted me to hang out in the cube they'd assigned me. Despite me having an office at my 'home agency.' This is a very common thing in engineering contracting.

    I simply never showed up to the cube, since I'm much more productive in my office, and also.. well, screw being in that cube. I ain't gonna be told what to do. They compromised by asking me to leave some books and papers in stuff in that cube. (That stuff got stolen pretty quickly. They asked me to file such-and-such a form, but I cut my losses because screw dealing with that noise anyway.)

    So, the Fe standpoint definitely does not have the monopoly on that sort of thing. Middle managers all around are in a shitty position where their higher-ups want to see checkmarks on a checklist.

    "Yes. If you aren't in the computer room, people won't think you're working to fix the problem."
    "How about you, as my supervisor, make sure that people know that I'm working to fix the problem?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    So I asked the supervisor if she would play a game with me for 1 month -- would she make a new rule that she would look over our work before it went out, so that the other clerk-typist and I had to put our finals in a folder for review before we gave them out to be signed.

    At the end of this period, I got an apology, a revised review, and a raise. Because the letter that she would see the other girl typing during the lulls when I was thumbing through a magazine was the same letter she started on at 8 am that morning. Meanwhile I had done the rest of the work for the entire day.
    Damn. This is the best thing I have ever heard.
    __

    The results should be what matters--no matter your lat/long coordinates or hours.

  5. #95
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    ETA: Morale is important.
    Indeed, yet sad that it hinges more on appearances than reality.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #96
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    "How about you, as my supervisor, make sure that people know that I'm working to fix the problem?"
    ^ +1
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #97
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ^ +1
    That reminds me of a story I heard where a guy said to his boss "Do you know why you don't think Dilbert is funny?"
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

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