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  1. #11
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I've learned to fake certainty, because if I don't, people assume I don't know what I'm talking about and don't bother to listen.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  2. #12
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    This is confusing for people because "be a man" really means "be an adult" but back in the day people thought mostly in terms of males so that's what we get. Telling someone to be a man means telling them to stop wallowing in what they can't change and focus on moving forward and making use of yourself. That's not bad advice.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Telling someone to be a man means telling them to stop wallowing in what they can't change and focus on moving forward and making use of yourself. That's not bad advice.
    i agree with that. It's about taking on some responsibility and power to create active change in situations that you don't like or aren't good, vs just remaining passive and not pushing forward.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    I'd like this thread to direct its attention at number 4 especially.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_19780...-opposite.html

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I'd like this thread to direct its attention at number 4 especially.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_19780...-opposite.html
    I'm waiting for someone to say, "But didn't the Greeks also make it socially cool to bugger people?"

    ... oh snap...

    Anyway, I respect men who can actually show emotion/vulnerability over things they care about. It's expressing that something matters.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Nothing wrong with being told to "be a man." It's a matter of what "being a man" entails and the context.
    I cannot imagine a meaning to this phrase that is not either harmful or semantically void. For it not to be void, you can only direct it at males, who are, by definition, either already men or bound to become men. Unless it means 'Be who you are', it is designed to compel people to be something they are not - by pretending it were linked to their gender identity, a well from which many troubles spring.

    I always disliked the punchline to Kipling's If.

  7. #17
    morose bourgeoisie
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    'be a man' means 'conform.'

  8. #18
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I dislike the framing.

    Nothing wrong with being told to "be a man." It's a matter of what "being a man" entails and the context.
    But that is the thing, what is the context that it entails that society puts on these kids?

    If these kids are getting the message that I got as a kid, then that message isn't particularly positive - it can be detrimental to some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    This is confusing for people because "be a man" really means "be an adult" but back in the day people thought mostly in terms of males so that's what we get. Telling someone to be a man means telling them to stop wallowing in what they can't change and focus on moving forward and making use of yourself. That's not bad advice.
    I think the focus of "being a man" and "being an adult" has changed meanings. I get different connotations on what it means to be a man and what it means to be an adult. An adult, for me, is "well-rounded," or tries to be while being a man would just be many of the things listed in the trailer, the whole be macho, don't cry, demand respect, be in control of your emotions... that sort of thing.

  9. #19
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eruca View Post
    Boys are taught that masculinity is, in itself, a merit, beyond its actual functionality. If we were to decide upon beneficial traits based on criteria such as happiness and life success impartially we would find ourselves drawing from both masculine and feminine arenas. Whereas we've come to the point women and girls are now, to a greater degree, allowed to draw from the masculine well, the same can not for the most part be said to be true of boys drawing from the feminine well. That is still very much taboo.
    Good point. As someone who's not particularly "masculine" in the traditional behavioral sense, this is definitely true. If you're thinking of this in the terms of "be responsible", or "be an adult", I don't see much wrong with it. But let's face it -- the statement "be a man" is seldom used in that context. It almost always means "suck it up", "suffer in silence", "shut up and do what you're told", or most often, as an insult directed at insuring conformity or compliance to a traditional standard -- one that enforces male isolation and "usefulness to others" (even if detrimental to the man himself).

    When I was a kid, I cried a lot. Comparatively, anyway. I was (and still am) really sensitive to rejection, confrontation, and perceived lack of perfection in the eyes of others. Now, it just bothers me - a lot - but I'm able to keep it to myself. When I was ten, it made me cry. I rather distinctly remember being told that, as a boy, I wasn't allowed to cry (yes, it was specifically couched that, *as a boy* it wasn't okay). That, of course, made me feel even worse, and impressed upon me the absolute necessity that I had to hide what I really felt, at all costs.

    Not particularly healthy. To say the least.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #20
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Everyone suffers with power imbalances in society. "Be a man!" would not be so destructive if the alternative wasn't such a state of dismissal. "You throw like a girl", "Line up ladies!", "Grow a pair of balls", etc. So what if you don't? Why is it so bad to not be a man? I've done okay without growing a pair AND I throw like a girl. So what?

    The horrific bullying that men do to each other is the result of bullying women. They use the same tactics to create internal hierarchies that establish dominant traits that ostracize the alternative group. The psychological result can actually be worse for sensitive guys than it is for the average women - possibly. I HATE every aspect of male dominance of this form.

    Disclaimer: I have my filters down after a glass of wine, but if I could get breast implants that shoot lasers, I would first aim for these bullying men and take out every one of them. I'd start with the arrogant, privileged football players and move on to the toothless good ol' boy hicks.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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