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  1. #11
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Ahh I see, you mean people being idiots. Yeah I know a few people that's happened to.
    haha yeah. from the outside, it looks insane, but i'm told that some people really can't leave once they're attached. it breaks them. so they stay together forever and under any circumstances and they call it "unconditional love." except it's not. it's codependence. i think i've seen a couple of "true love" (which i don't consider to be based on unconditional love necessarily) relationships, and i hope i see more in my lifetime.
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  2. #12
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't think I believe in unconditional love as a rule, except maybe that of parents for small children. I don't really think that's a bad thing because love or not, most relationships are rightfully conditional and should generally be as reciprocal and balanced as possible. To me, unconditional love is more akin to pity and there is a place for pity, but it's not what I want in my significant relationships.
    completely agree with this.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  3. #13
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    To me, unconditional love is more akin to pity and there is a place for pity, but it's not what I want in my significant relationships.
    What about in the case of parent-child relationships? Is a parent's love for them conditional, or is it unconditional/"pitiful?"
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  4. #14
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Romantic love isn't unconditional, nor should it be.

    I consider unconditional love to exist, and to be a sign of enlightenment. However, this doesn't mean it's a free pass for others to treat you poorly. Sometimes unconditional love is easiest to do from afar.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    What about in the case of parent-child relationships? Is a parent's love for them conditional, or is it unconditional/"pitiful?"
    For me, it is instinct/pity/social pressure for about the first three months. After that, they start being capable of positive feedback: they can smile and laugh, etc. It's not by any means equal, but there isn't anything quite like one of those slobbery little smiles or a handful of sweaty dandelion heads, etc. Those things have some kind of weird exaggerated value due to instincts or hormones or something.

    You like to think you'd love them the same if they couldn't offer any positive feedback, but I think that's one of the things that makes parenting a profoundly disabled child especially hard.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #16
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    For me, it is instinct/pity/social pressure for about the first three months. After that, they start being capable of positive feedback: they can smile and laugh, etc. It's not by any means equal, but there isn't anything quite like one of those slobbery little smiles or a handful of sweaty dandelion heads, etc. Those things have some kind of weird exaggerated value due to instincts or hormones or something.

    You like to think you'd love them the same if they couldn't offer any positive feedback, but I think that's one of the things that makes parenting a profoundly disabled child especially hard.
    ^ i often wonder about this because i don't have any kids of my own (yet?). what happens after children reach adolescence and the feedback turns negative, though?
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  7. #17
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    For me, it is instinct/pity/social pressure for about the first three months. After that, they start being capable of positive feedback: they can smile and laugh, etc. It's not by any means equal, but there isn't anything quite like one of those slobbery little smiles or a handful of sweaty dandelion heads, etc. Those things have some kind of weird exaggerated value due to instincts or hormones or something.

    You like to think you'd love them the same if they couldn't offer any positive feedback, but I think that's one of the things that makes parenting a profoundly disabled child especially hard.
    ^ i often wonder about this because i don't have any kids of my own (yet?). what happens after children reach adolescence and the feedback turns negative, though?
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  8. #18
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    ^ i often wonder about this because i don't have any kids of my own (yet?). what happens after children reach adolescence and the feedback turns negative, though?
    I don't know. Mine are 15, 17, 18, and 20 and they have yet to get like that. It's neutral a lot of the time, but the workload is also vey greatly reduced and they can contribute by doing chores, etc. Though it's probably different for parents who are more helicoptery or have more difficult children. I dunno.

    My kids' friends all seem to have pretty decent attitudes and are not hostile to their parents, despite pretty widely varying economic backgrounds and family situations.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #19
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't know. Mine are 15, 17, 18, and 20 and they have yet to get like that. It's neutral a lot of the time, but the workload is also vey greatly reduced and they can contribute by doing chores, etc. Though it's probably different for parents who are more helicoptery or have more difficult children. I dunno.

    My kids' friends all seem to have pretty decent attitudes and are not hostile to their parents, despite pretty widely varying economic backgrounds and family situations.
    that's good to hear! maybe the parents i overhear are going through a rough stage with their kids or maybe they're exceptions to the norm...
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    What about in the case of parent-child relationships? Is a parent's love for them conditional, or is it unconditional/"pitiful?"
    Well, in the style of unconditional love that makes sense to me:

    Even when a child has done heinous things, and even when the parents are furious with their child and abhors what they have done, I still have empathy for parents who do not abandon their kids and continue to interact with them even if I think said child should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. That's just parental, unconditional love to me. Momma visits death row, even if she can't stand what her kid has done, because she still loves her child? I respect that. Those bonds don't break.

    Other relationships, as people have said (such as romantic ones between equals), i don't think unconditional love has a place... or at least it just comes down to not treating someone as less than human; certain relationships need to have equal contributions from both parties in order to grow and thrive, rather than one party being willing to accept anything the other party does. I think it's possible to forgive a partner who has wronged you, while still drawing that relationship to a close in the way it had existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    ^ i often wonder about this because i don't have any kids of my own (yet?). what happens after children reach adolescence and the feedback turns negative, though?
    You ride it out, steady as it goes.

    Typically there's just a bad stretch, usually caused by the process of breaking away from the parent(s) and becoming more independent, and then the relationship mends again just with new parameters.

    But yes, it can be difficult, painful, confusing, and exhausting if you have a bad run with one of your kids. Sometimes it comes down to remembering that you are the parent and your child is not an adult yet, so you need to be the adult and not look for affirmation from your child; get it from a peer.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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