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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    I don't understand how when someone looks at, let's say, a styrofoam cup, that they see anything other than a cup ...
    Many years ago, there was a blog with an MBTI coach discussing the outcome of a workshop exercise involving an empty styrofoam cup. My initial response to the exercise was, "Fill me up, asshole!"
    As I read on, she claimed the team of coaches at the workshop were mostly those who had a preference for S, and they were so surprised by the written responses from those with a preference for N, they wondered if the people had been drinking alcohol. Apparently, the N responses involved everything from personification (like mine), to poems, essays, symbolism, etc. (Alternatively, I could have written an essay on poverty or the shallowness of white supremacy.) But the point is, my first choice was not to describe the cup as it is in its concrete form.

    I recall a friend of mine in this forum who started a thread on concrete description. She was excellent at the task, but I stared at the computer screen and laughed at myself.

  2. #12
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I can't use styrofoam without feeling a little bad. Liberal MA public education...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Many years ago, there was a blog with an MBTI coach discussing the outcome of a workshop exercise involving an empty styrofoam cup. My initial response to the exercise was, "Fill me up, asshole!"
    As I read on, she claimed the team of coaches at the workshop were mostly those who had a preference for S, and they were so surprised by the written responses from those with a preference for N, they wondered if the people had been drinking alcohol. Apparently, the N responses involved everything from personification (like mine), to poems, essays, symbolism, etc. (Alternatively, I could have written an essay on poverty or the shallowness of white supremacy.) But the point is, my first choice was not to describe the cup as it is in its concrete form.

    I recall a friend of mine in this forum who started a thread on concrete description. She was excellent at the task, but I stared at the computer screen and laughed at myself.
    Of course how different might those answers be without a prior knowledge of MBTI? Or were the people there all in the dark, yourself included?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Of course how different might those answers be without a prior knowledge of MBTI? Or were the people there all in the dark, yourself included?
    1,000 people were at my house reading her blog in the dark. I lit a candle. Kumbaya.

  5. #15
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    I don't understand how when someone looks at, let's say, a styrofoam cup, that they see anything other than a cup or something to rub your teeth on, or something to chew on when you're done drinking from it. Wait, I just gave more than one possibility Is that intuition?
    haha. If I were in a workshop and presented with a cup and asked to describe it, I'd probably think, 'oh, is this one of those stupid exercises where I'm 'supposed' to be super deep and imaginative?' Truth be told, my gut response is, it's a cup. Nothing much beyond that, unless I'm forced to sit there for 2 minutes writing a response and then have too much time to think about it. But even so, I suspect I'd stay fairly concrete, descriptive, and maybe reference it being crappy for the environment . But mostly, boring, let's move on.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #16
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    This conversation is reminding me of the "Look at your fish!" story (which, btw, is loved by iNtuitives and Sensors alike)...
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  7. #17
    WhoCares
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    I don't understand how when someone looks at, let's say, a styrofoam cup, that they see anything other than a cup or something to rub your teeth on, or something to chew on when you're done drinking from it. Wait, I just gave more than one possibility Is that intuition?
    No intuition is when you look at a styrofoam cup and experience a dejavu moment of when you were in another place also looking at a styrofoam cup but feeling either rotten or smugly contented and then feeling that feeling all over again, thinking you can see the same the surroundings all over again. Eventually you realise that someone is trying to talk to you but you had phased out ofthat moment entirely to relive he other one momentarily. It's also looking at a styrofoam cup and thinking I've been here bfore, I've done this before, but fucked if I can remember the details about it.

    Both scenario's bear no relationship to the present moment. They are in your head moments of shifting through memories being triggered by an external object while neither taking in the details of the object or the current situation.

    Intuiting is connecting feelings, and memories mnemonically to objects\situations you externally observe without taking in the now moment at all.
    Sensing is taking in the object\situation in the now and observing what it means in the current context.

    I regularly cut and burn myself. Often quite badly and to the point of serious bleeding, blistering of skin. I rarely feel the pain of it in the moment. My hand will recoil, I will react but I am not here now to fully experience it. Later it irritates because I feel the pain of it.

  8. #18
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    1,000 people were at my house reading her blog in the dark. I lit a candle. Kumbaya.
    My lord!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #19
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    When I think of a Styrofoam cup I think in the first instance "it's a cup". But then I let go and let my imagination run (I'm never in the moment anyway thanks to Si so this is easy).

    Essentially the process becomes a network of -> It's a cup -> It's Styrofoam -> It's made of oil -> What becomes of this when the oil becomes too expensive to produce and extract -> What will they use to make these cups and just about everything else they make from petroleum after it becomes too expensive to produce? -> What will become of humanity after that? -> Will we look back and think that we wasted our biggest gift on making cups? -> Will cups like these or the road outside become a symbol of a lost era? -> Will we long for it to return or dismiss it as a folly which ended up costing us dearly? -> We need to go into space and build colonies whilst we still have economical supplies of oil to produce sufficient propulsion to escape Earth's gravity well -> even if we do the human race won't find salvation as a space civilisation is still an empty existential construct -> if we don't we're back to the Middle Ages again -> Resource depletion will make it all wither away until we're back in the Stone Age.....and so on.

    The above is an example and the process unfolds rapidly (sometimes within seconds and sometimes longer). That is what I consider NeSi with some Fi value judgements thrown in for good measure.

  10. #20
    Stansmith
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    A lot of what people on personality forums describe as characteristic of Se sounds like something you would experience while under the influence of cocaine or methamphetamine. Touching a doorknob isn't a transcendent experience for me.

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