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  1. #41
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Maturity is an illusion anyhow.

    The characteristics of maturity usually, despite dictionary definitions, manifest as a rough common consensus to do what is deemed most socially sensible at a given time.

    Unfortunately like any common consensus it is usually used to reign others in and pass judgement.

    I don't think people really mature at all, they just learn to adopt characteristics that appear to be so and pass scrutiny. In any case, people still have a lot of baggage up in their brains that will continue to haunt them from child to pensioner.
    I totally agree.

  2. #42
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    And you know, it hurts that I reserve judgement on her (in fact, I protect her from it by not telling you any real back-story), and the bulk of the message I'm receiving is that you'll judge ME in one fell swoop.

    Thanks to those who at least lent me the benefit of the doubt.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #43
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    if people are meeting their responsibilities than it shouldn't matter what they do in their free time.

  4. #44
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    And you know, it hurts that I reserve judgement on her (in fact, I protect her from it by not telling you any real back-story), and the bulk of the message I'm receiving is that you'll judge ME in one fell swoop.

    Thanks to those who at least lent me the benefit of the doubt.
    No problem -- it's only fair.

    Re: what you said earlier about starting these threads when you're close to forming a judgment -- I think that's why it seemed like you had already made a judgment in the OP. Am I right that what you were sort of trying to say was "I may be leaning towards this -- please give me more information so that any judgment I may end up making will be balanced and just"?
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  5. #45
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    No problem -- it's only fair.

    Re: what you said earlier about starting these threads when you're close to forming a judgment -- I think that's why it seemed like you had already made a judgment in the OP. Am I right that what you were sort of trying to say was "I may be leaning towards this -- please give me more information so that any judgment I may end up making will be balanced and just"?
    Sorry, I feel like you're mishearing me. I didn't say I was close to forming judgement. I said I was leaning. Kind of like this:

    powerpoint-gauge[1].jpg

    eta: and I don't even know if the judgement is positive or negative, actually. I just know that the feeling-tone, the Fi space, feels more negative. That's what gets my attention.

    I'm noting on this topic I've been off-center for too long of a time. We are talking years worth of time. And it's not even about this person! I have no "beef" with her ... she can go fly paper airplanes all day if she wants to, who am I to judge her life?

    My thoughts on her posts in that moment created an 'aha' moment ... on a trend, a potential pattern, something I've been tailing for years now, that encompasses far more than some silly FB posts. Does that help explain?

    All I want is more data and this may (or may not) point me closer back to center. I likely will reserve judgement even then to keep my mind fresh and open. Why it becomes about ME personally ... I don't fully understand. Many seem ready to makes leaps I don't make arbitrarily.

    I appreciate your time to try to clarify, EJCC.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #46
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    This is a really interesting topic, and there are so many complex things to take in.

    1. We're noticing that what we once thought were adults were actually adolescents. Physically and biologically, the brain doesn't mature until around the age of 25. That's just science stuff. What we thought was an adult and a 'man' or 'woman' was really still a child. And while this is less noticeable with important crazy things going on (like a family struggling and starving, economic down falls, etc.) it has always been a known issue that young 'adults' do crazy and stupid things. This has been prevalent throughout generations.

    2. We were robbing people of their true range of childhood for a long time--mostly out of necessity and ignorance--and so people have to do what they can to adjust. People become harder, and stronger, and.. well.. the generations we see today really. As someone said--people were getting jobs because they NEEDED them, not because they wanted to explore something new and interesting for some independence. That sort of thing robs people of a lot. There are a lot of social implications that come with that. You get into a mentality to survive--and you maintain it because that's how you survived at all.

    3. Previous generations have fought very hard for the current condition of things. It's always a fight to make the future better for the future generation. So that they can relax and go to college instead of working in a factory. So that they can afford to enjoy things robbed of those before them. Parents always struggle to give their kids the things they never had. And so, we're coming across a generation of people who are absolutely indulging in that. Adults that are absolutely okay with doing things like playing at parks in their spare time.. not walking through them, or sitting, PLAYING. Adult-themed arcades are big now. We're realizing that, in the wake of all of that hard work and dedication and all of this chaos, that we don't HAVE to give up the wonderment of imagination, and creativity, just for it's own sake. We don't have to be creative in art. We don't have to imagine in our jobs. We can just do it. Just imagine. Just be creative. We don't need to have the excuse of kids being around to do these things. I'm an adult 26 year old that has a serious goal of filling my living room with balloons to jump around in. I also have goals like completing school, or whatever, but the goals that make me happy aren't adult-like at all.


    In the end, I think everyone adapts to their environment quite well. We play more because we're growing up in an overly serious world that doesn't take young adults seriously no matter what we do. We're balancing doing things that don't matter to anyone (like playing video games, and spinning in the chair at work, and acting like high schoolers passing notes to people at work), with things that make a real difference in the world (like education, and having children, and voting).

    There are consequences with everything you do, both good and bad. And a lot of the bad stems in how we deal with the people around us and the respect we give others. I feel like society is in a sharp decline in things like honor and respect. People just don't take that seriously anymore--and I feel they are valuable things that helped shaped us as children, that no one is implementing now that no one can tell us what to do anymore.
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  7. #47
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    This is a really interesting topic, and there are so many complex things to take in.
    I think so too.

    1. We're noticing that what we once thought were adults were actually adolescents. Physically and biologically, the brain doesn't mature until around the age of 25. That's just science stuff. What we thought was an adult and a 'man' or 'woman' was really still a child. And while this is less noticeable with important crazy things going on (like a family struggling and starving, economic down falls, etc.) it has always been a known issue that young 'adults' do crazy and stupid things. This has been prevalent throughout generations.
    What's fascinating to me is the disparity between reproductive maturation and this concept of brain maturation. Like, why do we have onset of menses at such a young age, if the brain is practically a decade or better behind?

    2. We were robbing people of their true range of childhood for a long time--mostly out of necessity and ignorance--and so people have to do what they can to adjust. People become harder, and stronger, and.. well.. the generations we see today really. As someone said--people were getting jobs because they NEEDED them, not because they wanted to explore something new and interesting for some independence. That sort of thing robs people of a lot. There are a lot of social implications that come with that. You get into a mentality to survive--and you maintain it because that's how you survived at all.
    Yes, the advancement of the species has always been geared towards survival, and for many on earth, still is. With more resources comes development higher up the food chain (so to speak) re roughly Maslow's hierarchy.

    3. Previous generations have fought very hard for the current condition of things. It's always a fight to make the future better for the future generation. So that they can relax and go to college instead of working in a factory. So that they can afford to enjoy things robbed of those before them. Parents always struggle to give their kids the things they never had. And so, we're coming across a generation of people who are absolutely indulging in that. Adults that are absolutely okay with doing things like playing at parks in their spare time.. not walking through them, or sitting, PLAYING. Adult-themed arcades are big now. We're realizing that, in the wake of all of that hard work and dedication and all of this chaos, that we don't HAVE to give up the wonderment of imagination, and creativity, just for it's own sake. We don't have to be creative in art. We don't have to imagine in our jobs. We can just do it. Just imagine. Just be creative. We don't need to have the excuse of kids being around to do these things. I'm an adult 26 year old that has a serious goal of filling my living room with balloons to jump around in. I also have goals like completing school, or whatever, but the goals that make me happy aren't adult-like at all.
    I wonder if these current trends get us closer to what I envision as a "Star Trek" world ... one where your natural inclinations and abilities shape your choices and many of the constraints we now face wrt such things are lessened or have simply fallen away .....

    I feel like society is in a sharp decline in things like honor and respect. People just don't take that seriously anymore--and I feel they are valuable things that helped shaped us as children, that no one is implementing now that no one can tell us what to do anymore.
    I do hear what you are saying here and see the lack of such things with regularity, and in all generations at times. Not sure what the answer is though .....
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #48
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    What's fascinating to me is the disparity between reproductive maturation and this concept of brain maturation. Like, why do we have onset of menses at such a young age, if the brain is practically a decade or better behind?
    I have a theory that menses are really essential in the growth of the body in general--the hormones distributed, all of that, it changes constantly, and it is essential.. Many women don't see their menses regulate out for quite a few years after they start them. Also, that whole part of the body isn't nearly as complex as the brain. It is easy to get a few hormones rolling and a cycle going. It takes a lot more effort to connect neurons and distribute signals.

    I do hear what you are saying here and see the lack of such things with regularity, and in all generations at times. Not sure what the answer is though .....
    I'm unsure either. I am hoping that this revolution of equality socially--people actually trying to make efforts to solve the issues like finite resources, bigotry in law, etc. etc. will make this trend swing the other way. Too many people are still struggling for survival in developed countries. I think a change in the apathetic nature of modern society will push these more ancient-feeling balancers into the light.. maybe under other names, but never the less.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  9. #49
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Ignoring immaturity as in not taking responsibility for yourself... what's so great about being grown up?

  10. #50
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Ignoring immaturity as in not taking responsibility for yourself... what's so great about being grown up?
    Assuming you can take responsibility for yourself (which I think is a key metric), how you act/dress/entertain yourself seems irrelevant to me.

    The guy writing the article in the OP comes across as a crusty old curmudegeon when he carps about men not dressing for dinner and the like. It basically boils down to the age old complaint of the elderly "that's not the way things used to be".

    But there does appear to be a "culture of coddeling" for today's youth that may be related to perpetual adolesence. I think this is potentially a bad thing, but it's the parents of the current generation, not the youth's themselves to blame. No parent should be paying for their 30 year old's vacations (or bills or what have you). The offspring's transition to self reliance should be long past by then. If it is, then said offspring can listen to rap music, wear their ball cap backwards, play video games, whatever. Who cares how they run their life, with the caveat they can do it without assistance.

    If they still need parental support to live their life, that's cause for alarm, but I think the problems run deeper than superficial behavior choices.

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