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  1. #11
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Believing in previous life times is like believing in fairies.
    and your point?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #12
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    maybe if people were celebrated as they actually fucking are then they wouldn't need or want to be something else.
    I have wondered that as well, perhaps our definitions of masculine and feminine are too narrow or something...?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  3. #13
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I have wondered that as well, perhaps our definitions of masculine and feminine are too narrow or something...?
    yeah for sure. have you ever watched that show what would you do? where they set up lil social experiments with actors to see how people act when they think no one is looking. there was one where they were having a lil boy actor pretend to want a doll and the mom either saying no or yes and seeing how the public reacted.

    or they did a girl who wanted boy stuff...can't remember her whole deal. but...just come on...let it all go. just let them play with whatever they want. let them wear what they want...let society adjust. there just needs to be more room for diversity. that whole thing is probably why i always bonded with people that saw them self as outside of that...it frustrates me. the whole gay scene is way cooler in a lot of ways. they just let people be whatever they are. people can wear what they want and act how they want.

    it's like having all of that intolerance directed your way just makes you really tolerant. or i've noticed some of the most generous, compassionate people in the world are those that have had difficult times too.

    society and people are a trip man.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #14
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Trans culture

    Body Dysmorphia

    I'm not saying this in a dismissive way. I really want to understand. Educate me. I want to know why these things happen to people. What are the thoughts and feelings that go along with. Can these two thing be connected? if so how? I'm not taking pity, I just truly don't get it.

    I learn best with slide shows, pictures, and charts
    I'd wager it feels like the most unbearable form of cognitive dissonance. E.g., a MTF transgendered individual - You truly believe, down to the essence of your core that you are female, yet society (immediate and the peripheral) is dictating that your actions align with the expectations of being a male.

    Identity crisis, moreso, than just body dysmorphia. Our physical body is only one aspect of what we identify with, with regards to who we are.

    It's the difference between sex and gender. One is a biological construct, the other is a social construct. Thus, I would refer to such individuals as not simply transexuals, but transgendered.

    I truly don't think it's as simple as body dysmorphia. There's quite the variety in how transgendered individuals may represent themselves. Not all of them go the final stage - sex reassignment surgery. So I don't know if it is ONLY about the body parts. That may be one aspect of it, but, I think it’s much more than about wanting female "parts" - but even deeper, to what it means to be a female, a woman. Mannerisms, etc. The social construct of the female gender, and being free to express oneself how they wish, within that capacity, and be identified as such.

  5. #15
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    Is it not enough to see the beauty in a garden without believing there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

  6. #16
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    and your point?
    There are two points -

    The first is that the probability of the existence of past lives and fairies is very low.

    The second is that by suspending our disbelief we can see past lives and fairies.

    And the suspension of disbelief is a necessary part of art, movies, religion and the New Age.

    So it's good to keep in mind that the work of children is play. And the purpose of play is to learn the difference between imagination and reality.

    And confusing imagination and reality devalues both imagination and reality.

  7. #17
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Is it not enough to see the beauty in a garden without believing there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
    We can of course imagine there are fairies in the bottom of the garden, particularly at dawn and dusk, when we might also hear the pipes of Pan.

  8. #18
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    I'd wager it feels like the most unbearable form of cognitive dissonance. E.g., a MTF transgendered individual - You truly believe, down to the essence of your core that you are female, yet society (immediate and the peripheral) is dictating that your actions align with the expectations of being a male.

    Identity crisis, moreso, than just body dysmorphia. Our physical body is only one aspect of what we identify with, with regards to who we are.

    It's the difference between sex and gender. One is a biological construct, the other is a social construct. Thus, I would refer to such individuals as not simply transexuals, but transgendered.

    I truly don't think it's as simple as body dysmorphia. There's quite the variety in how transgendered individuals may represent themselves. Not all of them go the final stage - sex reassignment surgery. So I don't know if it is ONLY about the body parts. That may be one aspect of it, but, I think it’s much more than about wanting female "parts" - but even deeper, to what it means to be a female, a woman. Mannerisms, etc. The social construct of the female gender, and being free to express oneself how they wish, within that capacity, and be identified as such.
    Gender isn't a social construct, gender expectations are. Consider gender what one is programed as in their head, and sex as the reproductive organs, in utero those areas are developed at different times and a wash of hormones can send a mixed message, hence we get intersexed conditions, personally I view transsexuality (a medical term) as a form of intersex. There has been research done that supports this theory.

    As for the OP, I have no idea what 'trans culture' is however, there is a significant difference between transsexuality and body dysmorphia, consider a strong case of both:
    - transitioning male to female or female to male for a transsexual cures the dysphoria. Attempts to treat with psychotherapy do not.
    - while body dysmorphic disorder has sad stories of people wanting more and more surgery while becoming more reclusive because they see themselves as hideous and not "cured" from the first try, yet from what I have read I understand can be successfully treated with medication and psychotherapy.

    This is to say, they are not the same at all.

    Disclaimer: I was not a tall African woman in a former life, I was however a fairy.

  9. #19
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Gender isn't a social construct, gender expectations are. Consider gender what one is programed as in their head, and sex as the reproductive organs, in utero those areas are developed at different times and a wash of hormones can send a mixed message, hence we get intersexed conditions, personally I view transsexuality (a medical term) as a form of intersex. There has been research done that supports this theory.

    As for the OP, I have no idea what 'trans culture' is however, there is a significant difference between transsexuality and body dysmorphia, consider a strong case of both:
    - transitioning male to female or female to male for a transsexual cures the dysphoria. Attempts to treat with psychotherapy do not.
    - while body dysmorphic disorder has sad stories of people wanting more and more surgery while becoming more reclusive because they see themselves as hideous and not "cured" from the first try, yet from what I have read I understand can be successfully treated with medication and psychotherapy.

    This is to say, they are not the same at all.

    Disclaimer: I was not a tall African woman in a former life, I was however a fairy.
    i see body dysmorphia as harmful, while if you take society out of the equation transitioning male to female or female to male isn't harmful

    not that a fully understand either one, as i don't have experience with them, just because i don't understand something doesn't make it bad

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Gender isn't a social construct, gender expectations are. Consider gender what one is programed as in their head, and sex as the reproductive organs, in utero those areas are developed at different times and a wash of hormones can send a mixed message, hence we get intersexed conditions, personally I view transsexuality (a medical term) as a form of intersex. There has been research done that supports this theory.
    Are you saying that gender is somehow "programmed into our heads" in utero, much as sex is determined in our reproductive organs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    I'd wager it feels like the most unbearable form of cognitive dissonance. E.g., a MTF transgendered individual - You truly believe, down to the essence of your core that you are female, yet society (immediate and the peripheral) is dictating that your actions align with the expectations of being a male.

    Identity crisis, moreso, than just body dysmorphia. Our physical body is only one aspect of what we identify with, with regards to who we are.

    It's the difference between sex and gender. One is a biological construct, the other is a social construct. Thus, I would refer to such individuals as not simply transexuals, but transgendered.

    I truly don't think it's as simple as body dysmorphia. There's quite the variety in how transgendered individuals may represent themselves. Not all of them go the final stage - sex reassignment surgery. So I don't know if it is ONLY about the body parts. That may be one aspect of it, but, I think it’s much more than about wanting female "parts" - but even deeper, to what it means to be a female, a woman. Mannerisms, etc. The social construct of the female gender, and being free to express oneself how they wish, within that capacity, and be identified as such.
    The highlighted comes close to expressing something that I have thought and had trouble articulating. When someone born female feels they are really male, or vice versa, what exactly doesn't feel right to them/ I suppose it differs for each person. All I know, as a cis-gendered person, is that while I reject most things associated with my gender and gender expectations, I have never been uncomfortable with my physical anatomy. Whatever I prefer in the masculine "palette" I can have already. I have great sympathy for anyone facing gender identity issues, and support 100% anyone's efforts to remake themselves in whatever way needed to bring comfort and fulfillment. I just wish I understood this one more.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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