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Thread: Lucid dreaming

  1. #71
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    When i am dreaming and realize that i am dreaming in the dream, i will awake out of it and go on as if i'm conscious. Yet this awaking and going about, as if i awoke after realizing i was in a dream, is still in the dream. When i awake into real consciousness, i will recall this standard phenomenon. But sometimes, if i recall this well into the day after awakening, i will become confused as to if i awoke after realizing or if the realization concurred in the same dream. Actually, after pondering on this, i really don't know for sure if i realized it and awoke in the same dream or awoke after the realization .
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  2. #72
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Can you be a lucid dreamer by default? Meaning most of your dreams are lucid?

    Because, I am a lucid dreamer (pretty much every night, expect when I have anxiety from my RL due to X event, and then, my dreams are something else).
    But for the rest of the nights (most, on avg.), I'm lucid to the extent that while dreaming I KNOW that I am dreaming....however, the control of the dreams, not so much.

    One weird thing about my lucid dreams are they are BORING!! And, I mean in terms of redundant BORING.

    Like, I will literally be dreaming, say, of going to school...and in my dream, IN REAL TIME, I will be going through the process of going to school, step by every f-ing minutae step. From waking up, walking to the bathroom, brushing my teeth, etc, etc. There is no time-skipping in my lucid dreaming state.

    And, that's when I'm going, "Yeah, yeah, I know this is a dream, can we skip the trivial parts and just get to the good part?" No, doesn't happen. It's quite frustrating, because in real time, imagine then, three minutes of dreaming about brushing your teeth, as you see your hand going back and forth, back and forth with the toothbrush. And, I'm saying to my dream self, "yes, then you rinse with water, skip and move to another scene"...but, nope. In my dream, then, I see myself going through the process of rinsing with the water, turning off the tap....zzzzz

    Hence, for me, lucid dreaming is quite annoying, as my dreams when I'm in a lucid state are ALWAYS boring (maybe this is what allows me to have a lucid dream? The bore-factor makes me conscious that I'm dreaming!).

    I would love lucid dreaming if I could master control of what my dream self does.

    (Or maybeee, it's a subconscious mutiny against self, for being so wishy-washy with details in real life, that I must be forced to engage in details in dreams. Note to self: YOu're an ASSHOLE )

  3. #73
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Can you be a lucid dreamer by default? Meaning most of your dreams are lucid?

    Because, I am a lucid dreamer (pretty much every night, expect when I have anxiety from my RL due to X event, and then, my dreams are something else).
    But for the rest of the nights (most, on avg.), I'm lucid to the extent that while dreaming I KNOW that I am dreaming....however, the control of the dreams, not so much.

    One weird thing about my lucid dreams are they are BORING!! And, I mean in terms of redundant BORING.

    Like, I will literally be dreaming, say, of going to school...and in my dream, IN REAL TIME, I will be going through the process of going to school, step by every f-ing minutae step. From waking up, walking to the bathroom, brushing my teeth, etc, etc. There is no time-skipping in my lucid dreaming state.

    And, that's when I'm going, "Yeah, yeah, I know this is a dream, can we skip the trivial parts and just get to the good part?" No, doesn't happen. It's quite frustrating, because in real time, imagine then, three minutes of dreaming about brushing your teeth, as you see your hand going back and forth, back and forth with the toothbrush. And, I'm saying to my dream self, "yes, then you rinse with water, skip and move to another scene"...but, nope. In my dream, then, I see myself going through the process of rinsing with the water, turning off the tap....zzzzz

    Hence, for me, lucid dreaming is quite annoying, as my dreams when I'm in a lucid state are ALWAYS boring (maybe this is what allows me to have a lucid dream? The bore-factor makes me conscious that I'm dreaming!).

    I would love lucid dreaming if I could master control of what my dream self does.

    (Or maybeee, it's a subconscious mutiny against self, for being so wishy-washy with details in real life, that I must be forced to engage in details in dreams. Note to self: YOu're an ASSHOLE )
    it's the little sj in ur head nagging at you
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #74
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    lucidity is not about "knowing" that you dream. such a definition of the world would make the word meaningless. knowing anything is a habit, habits constitute your personality and your core personality is present in dreams, so is the habit of knowing that live is just a dream or that a dream is just a dream or that you are a seeker, a wannabe shaman who tries to dive through holes below trees into the underground world. all these things become habits and thus dreams. you dream that you dream lucid. you may dream that you enter nonduality (but you don't really).

    that said, lucidity in a more meaningful definition can also become default. however being in control of dream objects is not the signifier for "true" lucidity, therefore not having control is not proving that your 'lucidity' (your knowing that its a dream) at a given moment was just a habitual imitation.

    i may try to write a meaningful definition of lucidity later, in fact i have some of those in my notebook .....

  5. #75
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    lucidity is not about "knowing" that you dream. such a definition of the world would make the word meaningless. knowing anything is a habit, habits constitute your personality and your core personality is present in dreams, so is the habit of knowing that live is just a dream or that a dream is just a dream or that you are a seeker, a wannabe shaman who tries to dive through holes below trees into the underground world. all these things become habits and thus dreams. you dream that you dream lucid. you may dream that you enter nonduality (but you don't really).

    that said, lucidity in a more meaningful definition can also become default. however being in control of dream objects is not the signifier for "true" lucidity, therefore not having control is not proving that your 'lucidity' (your knowing that its a dream) at a given moment was just a habitual imitation.

    i may try to write a meaningful definition of lucidity later, in fact i have some of those in my notebook .....
    I actually have no idea about lucid dreaming, to be honest. I just came back from lunch with a bunch of people, and we were talking about dreams. And, I was describing the boringness of my dreams, and how I (not the dream self) engage with my dream self...and that I try hard to make it unboring. And, a person from the group said, "You are lucid dreaming! I want to try that!"

    So...I remembered this thread on the forum, and thought I'd put my own experience out there.

    As per your bold, it didn't make it meaningless in this below link about lucid dreaming:

    Lucid Dreaming Frequently Asked Questions Answered by The Lucidity Institute
    "1.1 WHAT IS LUCID DREAMING?

    Lucid dreaming means dreaming while knowing that you are dreaming. The term was coined by Frederik van Eeden who used the word "lucid" in the sense of mental clarity. Lucidity usually begins in the midst of a dream when the dreamer realizes that the experience is not occurring in physical reality, but is a dream. Often this realization is triggered by the dreamer noticing some impossible or unlikely occurrence in the dream, such as flying or meeting the deceased. Sometimes people become lucid without noticing any particular clue in the dream; they just suddenly realize they are in a dream. A minority of lucid dreams (according to the research of LaBerge and colleagues, about 10 percent) are the result of returning to REM (dreaming) sleep directly from an awakening with unbroken reflective consciousness.

    The basic definition of lucid dreaming requires nothing more than becoming aware that you are dreaming. However, the quality of lucidity can vary greatly. When lucidity is at a high level, you are aware that everything experienced in the dream is occurring in your mind, that there is no real danger, and that you are asleep in bed and will awaken shortly. With low-level lucidity you may be aware to a certain extent that you are dreaming, perhaps enough to fly or alter what you are doing, but not enough to realize that the people are dream representations, or that you can suffer no physical damage, or that you are actually in bed.


    1.2 IS LUCID DREAMING THE SAME AS DREAM CONTROL?

    Lucidity is not synonymous with dream control. It is possible to be lucid and have little control over dream content, and conversely, to have a great deal of control without being explicitly aware that you are dreaming. However, becoming lucid in a dream is likely to increase the extent to which you can deliberately influence the course of events. Once lucid, dreamers usually choose to do something permitted only by the extraordinary freedom of the dream state, such as flying
    ."

    *****************
    Regardless, as I know nothing really on the topic, at present, I'd want to learn, so if you (anyone here) can give me insight, that'd be great. And esp. of ways to control these dreams, or to NOT make them boring.

    Example:

    In my dreams, say if I know I'm getting ready for school, and I get frustrated at the detailed occurances of events in my dreams, e.g., brushing my teeth, sometimes, I will force myself to "skip" these mundane steps in my dream, and place my dream self in a new environment (like, at school - skipping getting ready, going TO, etc). But, it once again becomes mundane. I will see myself walk up the steps, open the door, see me take each step...only to get bored again with my dream self, and want to skip again.

    But, If I do this too many times, more than 1-2wice, the 'skipping', I wake myself up from sleep...and I know my frustration is within my conscious self (not my dream self) at the slow, mundance pace of my dreams, and my frustrated conscious is what woke me up. So, sometimes, I just literally take myself away from my dream self, and say, 'fuck it, just dream, whatever it is you dream' And then I can just sleep and 'dream' (I guess, but I won't know or remember).

    That's one control I do have while 'lucid dreaming' (or whatever term it is that I'm doing)...take myself OUT of my dream self/disconnect, while still sleeping.

  6. #76
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    However, the quality of lucidity can vary greatly. When lucidity is at a high level ...
    but see, that is just not so skillfull ..talking about levels to fix a theory that is broken to begin with. how will you define them and more importantly how will you explain them... all those websites don't get it ... it just descriptive crap. nice for communication of beginners, but raaawwwarrr!!!
    there is much more going on, than one "thing" that you could call lucidity or anything. many factors.

    voice from the off: I should go to bed some time




    wait, who said that?

  7. #77
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    but see, that is just not so skillfull ..talking about levels to fix a theory that is broken to begin with. how will you define them and more importantly how will you explain them... all those websites don't get it ... it just descriptive crap. nice for communication of beginners, but raaawwwarrr!!!
    there is much more going on, than one "thing" that you could call lucidity or anything. many factors.

    (should go to bed some time)
    I have no idea what you're saying there. But, uh...good nite!

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  9. #79
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    i'm followin. i just can't figure out a way to articulate something missing in there.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #80
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    this is from my notebook and it's partially wrong and still quite incomplete but all i can do today (i am awake since like 30 hours, dunno)...

    true lucidity needs an abstract definition. it's the beginner's mind that is aware of meaning and purpose of the current moment and cares enough to make good use of it. you are lucid, when you try something new, as opposed to acting out 'karma' (habits). this definition works for waking life as well. we are rarely lucid in waking life. lucidity is not knowledge, but it's indeed related to flexible access to memory about the big picture of past (context). this flexibility is achieved by trancendence of all objects that constitute the current moment (dream or waking live). the opposite is being lost in the moment, by means of identification. so, since lucidity is transcendence, and transcendence needs to be supported by a hard structure, permanent lucidity is a symptom of a stage of development (a stage is layer of structure that supports/carries the flexibility to acces those perspectives, which signify the particular layer. each stage/layer holds more perspectives).

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