User Tag List

First 910111213 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 192

Thread: Lucid dreaming

  1. #101
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    oh well lets give it a try

    victor, from where i stand, the fact that you CAN have these daydream visualizations proofs mbti, because other people of your type can do that too, while other people of my type can not do it. when i am awake, i have a powerful technical visualization skill, i can run a series of semi transparent pattern-blueprints at light speed, but i am incapable of stabilizing a slow paced concrete matter fantasy, like your rocky mountain thing.... it's a different skillset. the fact that my right brain hemisphere is 0.4 inch bigger then my left hemisphere is not a fantasy, so is the fact, that some people have an even skull or the opposite variation. (and there are other scientific proofs that proof different wiring of the brain, so where do you take that ignorance from, to call type fantasy?)

    esoteric people like you, who resist categories will sell expensive books about how to daydream (visualize) in your fashion, claiming that everyone can do it, when reality proves that this is a lie, and idiots like me buy these books, and we try and try (and the books dont explain HOW it works, only tell you descriptively to do it like they do it, lol) and then we are ashamed because we can not do it. however i can understand ken wilber, so i don't feel entirely inferior.

    i can always have access to altered states, after leaving my stable hard coded type configuration which is defined by my brain structure, as it currently is producing my waking state.

    and that does not mean, that someone like me can not have control in these states, its just a much bigger challenge to control a state that is deep and open to every aspect of the subconsciousness. so yes, there are many things that could lead me to superstitions if i was the gross person who interprets reality literally and based on pictures, as if an angel with wings was an actual angel or something. however i a not such a person, which is not related to my type (of dreaming) but to my stage (of being able to maintain multiple even seemingly contradictory perspectives).

    i can collect experiences and work with working-assumptions, without having them rule my full view of reality. i can make a distinction between things that are possible and things that are proven in a relative situation.

    no need to warn me of anything.

    the only thing that saves people from superstitions (gross interpretations of dream states, like out of body experiences for example) in the long run is an integral world view. giving them tabus about what experiences they should and should not have, does not work. obviously people get "abducted by aliens", who are not even trying to achieve an altered stage of consciousness.





    sorry, victor, but even if you are not a part of the group, the group is still a part of reality, meaning that it's collective creation is a part of reality (it's maintained by their brains), not a fantasy. the word fantasy is supposed to refer to something that has no originating basis, that is arbitrary and transitory because it is not reflecting hard structures. however collective creation (the so called We-quadrant, that might encourage type development) is a representation of individual potential (a hard structure). its the most real thing, samsara has to offer.
    I learnt how to do it by paying a Sport's Psychologist at the University.

    He was very good particularly with beginners.

    He understood where we where starting from and warned us of the dangers.

    But interestingly, only half the class lasted the distance of the course. In other words, half the class dropped out.

    And it was very plain why. They started to become disturbed by what they were discovering inside themselves.

    They were almost all athletes who only wanted to improve their performance. And they found getting to know themselves better to be too threatening, so they left.

    But the rest of us learnt how to move in and out of trance, successfully and safely.

    And only as by-product, our performance improved.

  2. #102
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,171

    Default

    Last night I dreamed that I had a telepathic connection with my mom, and that I was a refugee in a war and I got shot in the wrist. Not lucid yet.

  3. #103
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    But interestingly, only half the class lasted the distance of the course. In other words, half the class dropped out.

    And it was very plain why. They started to become disturbed by what they were discovering inside themselves.
    that is assumptions .. the very same thing happens in EVERY course of this kind, it happens for example in a trans-personal rehabilitation clinic were all participants are interested into finding them-selves and eventually succeed, but by using very different methods. in fact, there are way more than two groups. some people have theses daydreams, others stumble into energetic awareness (kundalini stuff) and so on ....

  4. #104
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    that is assumptions .. the very same thing happens in EVERY course of this kind, it happens for example in a trans-personal rehabilitation clinic were all participants are interested into finding them-selves and eventually succeed, but by using very different methods. in fact, there are way more than two groups. some people have theses daydreams, others stumble into energetic awareness (kundalini stuff) and so on ....
    OK, I understand you don't like what I am saying or perhaps the way I am saying it.

  5. #105
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    i have no problem with how you say it, and you are certainly reasonable when you assume that some of your athletes were not interested in the course (in their inner life) or maybe most of them. but you can not know it for all of them. and making such an assumption can't possibly justify your theory ("everyone can do this if he would just be brave like myself"), for instance because of the massive objective evidence for how people are very differently equipped. its somehow true that everyone can learn to induce trance, however this trance is not in every case different from a wake induced lucid dream, which is not a different state from what i have experienced sometimes or from a normal lucid dream. but your daydreaming visualization is most likely different from it. but let's say, it's not. lets say, you induce a typical dreamstate. so, since your waking state is different by type than that of another person, the transition from this original waking state state into the wake induced lucid dream (so called WILD) is a different transition process. now, if you call the inducing "achieving trance", then this word refers to a different processes of transition, for different people. so whatever you do is different from what for example I would have to do, to arrive at the same goal (state). the transition is experienced differently. i need to make the most significant transition from one side of the brain into the most opposite side, which is a hard ego threatening tremor, for you its just a little shift. it's just arrogant of you, to assume, that i or other people who are not like you, are different, "because they are disturbed by any content of my character".

  6. #106
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    i have no problem with how you say it, and you are certainly reasonable when you assume that some of your athletes were not interested in the course or maybe most of them. but you can not know it for all of them. and making such an assumption can't possibly justify your theory ("everyone can do this if he would just be brave like myself"), for instance because of the massive objective evidence for how people are very differently equipped. its somehow true that everyone can learn to induce trance, however this trance is not in every case different from a wake induced lucid dream, which is not a different state from what i have experienced sometimes or from a normal lucid dream. but your daydreaming visualization is most likely different from it. but let's say, it's not. lets say, you induce a typical dreamstate. so, since your waking state is different by type than that of another person, the transition from this original waking state state into the wake induced lucid dream (so called WILD) is a different transition process. no, if you call the inducing "achieving trance" then, this word refers to different processes of transition, for different people. so whatever you do is different from what for example i have to do. the transition is experienced differently. for me i need to make the most significant transition from one side of the brain into the most opposite side, which is a hard ego threatening tremble, for you its just a little shift. its just arrogant of you, to assume, that i or other people who are not like you, are different, "because they are disturbed by any content of my character".
    Of course you are right, Nanook. We all have our individual differences and they can be mapped on a Bell Curve where most fall in the middle and a decreasingly smaller number fall at either end.

    And of course I am limited just by being myself. So that is why I talk to you. You are different from me and you are well aware you are different from me.

    So you can see things differently, do things differently and know things differently.

    So I can only rely upon you to tell me about the different world you inhabit.

    Sometimes, though, I am so keen to tell you about the different world I inhabit that I forget to listen to you. And that is a mistake.

  7. #107
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    okay, your integrity is refreshing.

    So I can only rely upon you to tell me about the different world you inhabit.
    well, i cant just list random things that might constitute a difference. the bottom line is, that i can not access a visualizing state, coming from waking state. i can wake induce a dream sometimes, but this involves full dissociation of the body, meaning i will sleep physically. i might have a tiny rest of awareness about my physical body, but it's in paralysis (that is very different from being relaxed). interestingly even shamans have these differences. some dance around drumming, others lay down on the ground and put their bodies to sleep, while someone else has to drum for them.

  8. #108
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    ...for me i need to make the most significant transition from one side of the brain into the most opposite side, which is a hard ego threatening tremble, for you its just a little shift.
    Yes, this is interesting Nanook. And yes I think we are talking about a shift in the brain.

    When the shift occurs for me I do feel a sharp fear, perhaps not unlike your, "hard ego threatening tremble".

    And yes the shift is a threat to the ego for the ego has to let go for a while.

    And as it is our ego that looks after our survival, it feels that our very survival is threatened and so we, "tremble".

    And I tremble too.

    So to help understand my trembling I have tried to learn about the process of moving from one state to another.

    But it is always an adventure.

    And I am always looking for, and sometimes finding, something new.

  9. #109
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    And yes the shift is a threat to the ego for the ego has to let go for a while.
    so if i assume that its not all that different from how it is for me, than i will also assume, that this letting go is where a break of "reality control" will happen, which might induce a dream-state that is suggestible to illusion, for example, on the way back from trance, false awakenings are likely to happen, which indicate, that the "lucidity" has been lost. in my experience it took experience to find all these different states and compare them from a distance, tell "how" lucid experiences have been, or how illusory. for instance these so called out of body experiences are horribly tricky.

  10. #110
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    okay, your integrity is refreshing.

    well, i cant just list random things that might constitute a difference. the bottom line is, that i can not access a visualizing state, coming from waking state. i can wake induce a dream sometimes, but this involves full dissociation of the body, meaning i will sleep physically. i might have a tiny rest of awareness about my physical body, but it's in paralysis (that is very different from being relaxed). interestingly even shamans have these differences. some dance around drumming, others lay down on the ground and put their bodies to sleep, while someone else has to drum for them.
    Yes, there are myriad ways of entering and leaving a trance.

    And you are right, the differences are great.

    And you have different ways of entering and leaving a trance than I.

    So I have been very interested to learn to pull all these differences together.

    The closest I have got is Dennis Weir's, "Trance Theory".

    It might be a theory that appeals to you as it is logical and consistent and takes account of differences.

    You can find it by clicking on -

    The Trance Institute

    You might like to tell me what you think of it.

Similar Threads

  1. I Can't Lucid Dream.
    By Cygnus in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2015, 04:14 AM
  2. Lucid Dream Journal
    By The Wailing Specter in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-13-2014, 10:51 PM
  3. Lucid dreams and type
    By Kurt.Is.God in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 03-26-2012, 06:12 AM
  4. Lucid Dreaming and Dream Control
    By JoSunshine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-11-2011, 09:56 PM
  5. Lucid dreaming without control
    By Sahara in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-02-2007, 09:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO