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Thread: Lucid dreaming

  1. #91
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Maybe you have to strong of an Si.
    YES! You kinda read my mind because I've been thinking of starting a thread in the NT Rationale about ENTPs and the role of Si (said to be the 4th function), but, for me personally, it's hella strong. Well, Si if we are talking strictly of in terms of memory and recall. And, like in my dreams, I have no real 'control' over my Si. I.e., I can't pick and choose what I remember, but, I will remember, with photographic memory...stuff.
    My bf likes to play with my Si for his own amusement, like, after we go our separate ways after a dinner out, over the phone going, 'what was the number written on my shirt?'
    Me: 1984.
    Him: Lemme check, gotta take it outta the laundry basket...pause....HOLY SHIT, YES!

    If I had control, imagine the time-saving I can do, when studying! But alas, I have no control of what I remember to such accurate detail that when I recall, I can visually see that past event/time, right down to where a person was sitting, to them touching their ear when they said X stuff. One way it does help is in debates where my Ne+Ti engages, I know I utilize a lot of Si, because I have this huge memory for random obscure information about a variety of stuff....
    I am also very good at recalling what others have said, which helps in detecting contradictions or lies.

    Control is the key.....sigh....this is gonna be a lot of work (if I don't get bored faster than I want it to work)

  2. #92
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I know I utilize a lot of Si, because I have this huge memory for random obscure information about a variety of stuff....
    This is not Si, this is a light autistic symptom.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #93
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    This is not Si, this is a light autistic symptom.
    How do you parse out whether it is the work of Si versus autism spectrum disorder? And, those with ASD, do they not have Si? Are they mutually exclusive? You're lacking logic here.

  4. #94
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    There is no need to fall asleep to have a lucid dream. You can start from a waking position and end in the waking position, relaxed and refreshed.

    In my imagination I drive into the Brindabella Mountains down to Condor Creek. I walk up the creek until I come to a rock wall. Then I step out of the creek, up to the front of the small rock wall, and a rock door slides open and I enter.

    As the rock door slides closed behind me, I find I am looking down at a flight of twelve steps hewn into the living rock, leading down to a small but elegant portico.

    I slowly walk down the steps one by one, counting them as I go, until I reach the portico.

    In front of me and to the left is a bust of Garibaldi and above the door in front of me is a bas-relief of Caesar. I always greet them and thank them for looking after my underground home.

    And running the length of the portico, and to my right, is a long garden of green fairy ferns that welcome me shyly with their freshness.

    And as I approach the door at the end of the portico, it opens and I step through finding myself in a spacious lounge room with a warm open fire.

    By this time I am in the dead centre of a lucid dream.

    This presents me with many opportunities.

    I can simply relax. Or I can dance to my heart's content. Or I can slowly and carefully start to reprogram my thoughts.

    Or I can practise a skill, like the piano or surf boarding.

    And when I have had my fill, I walk to the door in the lounge room and it slides opens in front of me and I step into the portico.

    I say goodbye to Garibaldi and Caesar and the fairy ferns and start to walk up the twelve steps one by one counting them as I go until I am standing at the top.

    The door slides open and I am met by the exquisite Condor Creek sparkling in the sunlight.

    And I feel relaxed and refreshed and wide awake.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    One use of lucid dreams that occurred to me, (if I were able to have them on a more regular basis) would be to call up certain people and interact with them and measure their dream responses versus their real responses. I would contrast the two to see how my assumptions about that person compared with how that person actually is.

    Of course, I could just do that right now in my imagination, but lucid dream state feels "real." Anybody do this?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    One use of lucid dreams that occurred to me, (if I were able to have them on a more regular basis) would be to call up certain people and interact with them and measure their dream responses versus their real responses. I would contrast the two to see how my assumptions about that person compared with how that person actually is.

    Of course, I could just do that right now in my imagination, but lucid dream state feels "real." Anybody do this?
    When you are learning to create your own lucid dreams, one of the things they warn you about is introducing into your lucid dream, animals or people.

    I have often wondered about this. And perhaps it is because you can project your desires onto an animal or a person in your lucid dream, without any reality testing.

    And as most don't even know what their desires are, never mind whether they are hamful of nourishing, introducing animals or persons into a lucid dream is too much for you to handle.

    And the fact that your desires are tempting you to do this, would suggest it is not a good idea.

    No, there is far too much to learn about yourself before you can safely introduce animals or persons into your lucid dream.

    But as you have no intention of learning how to enter and leave lucid dreams at will, for you this warning is moot.

    No, you just want to shoot the breeze, so you are quite safe.

  7. #97
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    well, normally i dream a while, then become lucid, so there are already people around. i will ask them "who are you, and how do you relate to me?" or "show me your true face" ... if they have a meaning, they will be able to tell me about it.

    maybe there are are two boys playing in a dark corner. they might tell me, how they represent parts of my personality that i have been disintegrating and can tell me the date (average age) or occasion at which i had the conflict that made me disintegrate them for the first time ....

    but when i am in one of the shallower dreams, where i pop up random figures, because i don't know what else to do, and ask them to show me their true face, they will be empty like rubber fuck dolls.

    as for animals ... when i have been looking out for them, plenty showed up, but there was no consistency. i don't have a relation or habitual relation to a specific "power" animal. they all represent different things and there is strong symbolism so its vague but obvious.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    well, normally i dream a while, then become lucid, so there are already people around. i will ask them "who are you, and how do you relate to me?" or "show me your true face" ... if they have a meaning, they will be able to tell me about it.

    maybe there are are two boys playing in a dark corner. they might tell me, how they represent parts of my personality that i have been disintegrating and can tell me the date (average age) or occasion at which i had the conflict that made me disintegrate them for the first time ....

    but when i am in one of the shallower dreams, where i pop up random figures, because i don't know what else to do, and ask them to show me their true face, they will be empty like rubber fuck dolls.

    as for animals ... when i have been looking out for them, plenty showed up, but there was no consistency. i don't have a relation or habitual relation to a specific "power" animal. they all represent different things and there is strong symbolism so its vague but obvious.
    So, as I understand it, you have no control over your lucid dreams.

    In fact you must give up control and fall asleep before you can have a lucid dream.

    And indeed you don't wake up from a lucid dream, all that happens is that you remain asleep.

    So for you lucid dreaming is our of your control and slightly mysterious.

    This can lead to all kinds of fantasies and superstitions.

    As indeed it has led to the fantasy of MBTI.

    And MBTI is so powerful because it is a group fantasy.

    A group fantasy is self validating and there is no reality testing.

    That is why it is called a fantasy.

  9. #99
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    not sure if discussion makes any sense ....

    And indeed you don't wake up from a lucid dream, all that happens is that you remain asleep.
    not sure what you are trying to imply there. i can wake up literally, infact i often wake up before i want to. if you mean, that i am not truly lucid AND in control: i did not say that. its different every time. often i could conquer as much control as i wanted to, but this would kill the opportunity to contact my authentic being and replace it with a meaningless fantasy ... so I try hard to stay sensitive, humble, not use my ego much, keep my mind calm, just observe the state and see what it "wants" to show me. this humbleness is what keeps true lucidity alive or its identical to it. the more i interfere, the more i loose myself in ambition, meaning that objects will become subject (again), meaning that i can not see, what i am (acting out) - this would be a dream (as in not-lucid).

  10. #100
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook
    not sure if discussion makes any sense ....

    oh well lets give it a try

    victor, from where i stand, the fact that you CAN have these daydream visualizations proofs mbti, because other people of your type can do that too, while other people of my type can not do it. when i am awake, i have a powerful technical visualization skill, i can run a series of semi transparent pattern-blueprints at light speed, but i am incapable of stabilizing a slow paced concrete matter fantasy, like your rocky mountain thing.... it's a different skillset. the fact that my right brain hemisphere is 0.4 inch bigger then my left hemisphere is not a fantasy, so is the fact, that some people have an even skull or the opposite variation. (and there are other scientific proofs that proof different wiring of the brain, so where do you take that ignorance from, to call type fantasy?)

    esoteric people like you, who resist categories will sell expensive books about how to daydream (visualize) in your fashion, claiming that everyone can do it, when reality proves that this is a lie, and idiots like me buy these books, and we try and try (and the books dont explain HOW it works, only tell you descriptively to do it like they do it, lol) and then we are ashamed because we can not do it. however i can understand ken wilber, so i don't feel entirely inferior.

    i can always have access to altered states, after leaving my stable hard coded type configuration which is defined by my brain structure, as it currently is producing my waking state.

    and that does not mean, that someone like me can not have control in these states, its just a much bigger challenge to control a state that is deep and open to every aspect of the subconsciousness. so yes, there are many things that could lead me to superstitions if i was the gross person who interprets reality literally and based on pictures, as if an angel with wings was an actual angel or something. however i a not such a person, which is not related to my type (of dreaming) but to my stage (of being able to maintain multiple even seemingly contradictory perspectives).

    i can collect experiences and work with working-assumptions, without having them rule my full view of reality. i can make a distinction between things that are possible and things that are proven in a relative situation.

    no need to warn me of anything.

    the only thing that saves people from superstitions (gross interpretations of dream states, like out of body experiences for example) in the long run is an integral world view. giving them tabus about what experiences they should and should not have, does not work. obviously people get "abducted by aliens", who are not even trying to achieve an altered stage of consciousness.



    Quote Originally Posted by victor
    A group fantasy is self validating and there is no reality testing.
    sorry, victor, but even if you are not a part of the group, the group is still a part of reality, meaning that it's collective creation is a part of reality (it's maintained by their brains), not a fantasy. the word fantasy is supposed to refer to something that has no originating basis, that is arbitrary and transitory because it is not reflecting hard structures. however collective creation (the so called We-quadrant, that might encourage type development) is a representation of individual potential (a hard structure). its the most real thing, samsara has to offer.

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