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  1. #61
    A window to the soul
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    There's a sucker born every minute.

  2. #62
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Sucker? Kindly prove I'm lying then..

    Or prove that casual sex is an illness, so thus the many must be ill, right?

    I too sense you're threatened.

  3. #63
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    You would be right, though I think it may be too soon to assume the psychologists you're describing are trying to hurt you. They may simply be negligent and disrespectful of others' belief systems. This often comes hand-in-hand with fundamentalism, though it's certainly not limited to just that. Either way, I think they're breaking the principles their clinics/hospitals/health centers hold them by.

    Still, I'm curious as to what rationale your psychologists had for critiquing casual sex.
    It's how they think.

  4. #64
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It certainly does seem that a lot of people are coming to the thread with their own baggage about therapists.

    Are you really going to pay someone to provide you with warmth/empathy/support?

    That sounds a lot like just paying someone for validation, like I said in my first responses to Danseen, who I have no prior contact with or opinion of.

    I dont think that therapy is purely about seeking validation and agreement, someone to reflect your values and tell you life is great and you can do no wrong.

    I'm sorry if some people have had bad experiences of therapists and they've brought that o the table, what about therapists or helping professionals who've had experiences of clients who hate to be challenged? Who're apt to deflect with drama, vitriol, complaints and even litigation?

    Who'd be a psych eh?
    Look, you said my point was "nonsense".

    You then said my point was "empty validation".

    You then say I am "narcissistic".

    lolol..

    Why then do you presume I must respond well to your comments? Either you have a huge ego, or you're insecure. Unless we're related by blood, or somehow know each other, I don't get why you are so eager for me to respond "well" to you. I blame the PC society, to many normal people interactions are shallow unless trust/respect is earned.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    The point of therapy is not "to pay someone to provide you with warmth/empathy/support".
    Well, on that we are agreed.

    A therapist needs to be warm empathetic and supportive in order to form a good relationship with the client, gain their trust, and help foster cooperation. Psychotherapy is not something a therapist does TO the client, it is something both of them cooperate on.
    Hmm, I would agree to a point but what you are describing is also the pop cultural understanding of what therapy is, I would say that there is an important element involving the quality of the therapists attention, it is qualitatively different from that of just anyone, incorporating active listening etc. but I would also say that there is a very important ethical duty upon all therapists to be honest with their clients too.

    The goal is to help the client cope and be better-adjusted (and the specifics are highly dependent on a situation). A therapist isn't there to "correct" the client, tell them what to do, or to substitute their judgement for the client's. If, and it's a big IF, a client's judgement is, in fact suspect and is causing the client problems, the therapist is to help the client develop it, by teaching specific reasoning tools/techniques, and, perhaps, providing alternative perspectives/scenarios.
    I dont know if correct is the right word, I wouldnt expect any therapist to usurp the autonomy and judgement of their clients. It is only likely to make the therapy interminable.

    On the other hand I do believe that the therapist has a duty of honesty, as I have said, which involves at no point reinforcing or supporting or endorsing or validating maladaptive behaviour, the very behaviour likely to have at the very least contributed to them coming into therapy. That too would make the therapy interminable too.

    Another very important aspect of therapy is challenging behaviour and thinking, that's very important and it is a fact that not all therapists are good at it or do it correctly, some try to perform that sort of task too early, some too late. And I dont believe there is ANY big if about it, there's no ifs, ands or buts about it, sick people dont need a Dr and someone whose judgement and reasoning is spot on isnt going to seek a therapist.

    Based on what you've said so far, it seems to me that your understanding of psychotherapy is based mostly on psychoanalytic theory/practice. Well, bad news: any "science" behind psychoanalysis has been demonstrated to be made up wholesale, and has no evidence to support it. If there's anything at all in Freud's theories (or those of some of his followers) that has any relation to reality, that is purely coincidental. The practice of psychotherapy has moved on since.
    In my own practice I use crisis intervention and life space interviewing, which incorporate co-regulating with persons who are out of control their emotional state and then linking the feelings with behaviour and rehearsing alternative behaviours when those feelings inevitably arise again. A good part of my practice, in the wider sense because no one is perpetually in crisis, is about modelling caring behaviour and developing consequential thinking.

    I would say that I use conclusions from a range of therapies that I'm familiar with, including cognitive behavioural therapy, rational emotive behaviour therapy but I do think depth psychology has contributed a lot more than either of these schools of thought.

    Its very easy for people to rubbish psychoanalysis, often the people who're quickest to do so are the least acquainted with either the school of thought itself or the legitimate criticism of it. Something you've made clear in your post here.

    The scientific basis of psychoanalytic psychotherapy was derived from clinical observation, analysis and clinical practice, when any authors, such as John Bowlby, found it wanting in some respects, ie not having the same evidence base as social learning theories, they did not throw out the baby with the bathwater and did acknowledge that the tools, ie transference, knowledge of ego defences etc. where useful. Bowlby developed psychoanalysis through his research of attachment and ethnography and that is pretty much how any discipline grows and develops. Psychoanalysis has had set backs arising from schisms and control stretching back to the days of Freud but this happens too and it does not invalidate the school of thought as a whole in my opinion. Not any more than theories about miasmas invalidate modern biology and medicine.

  6. #66
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    There's a sucker born every minute.

    OK, says somebody who refers to themselves as "Nerd Girl". Lack of self-esteem?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    Do you make a habit of assuming that whatever a person says they are lying? Nothing danseen has said about his experience is out of the realm of possibility.
    I tend not to make assumptions, I do make judgements on the basis of what people have decided to reveal about themselves though.


    Unless you have specific (and weighty) reasons to believe that his report of being victimized by a therapist is a fabrication, why jump to that conclusion?
    You're pretty invested in believing what they have said is valid and should not be challenged. That's similar to what Danseen has posted himself.

    My reason for skepticism about what Danseen has said about his therapist is Danseen's interaction with ever poster in this thread.

    It has been consistent, which therefore leads me to believe that this is typical, its difficult to know, other than taking Danseen at their word, anything about his therapist but it is possible to know about Danseen, they have provided information from which it is possible to reach conclusions.

    Perhaps you don't like what he has said in this thread, or even in others, maybe you think he is an asshole
    I've not seen any posts by this member on the forum, I believed they were a new poster and I have simply responded to what they have posted within the thread. Assuming that there's some sort of pre-existing animosity which has eschewed my judgement on the topic is groundless. Do you deploy this sort of reasoning regularly? Does it work for you?

    maybe you actually agree that being reserved/atheist/nonconformist or liking casual sex are somehow wrong, that still doesn't prove that his report is a lie, or make the behavior he describes from his therapist even remotely acceptable.
    You have assumed that the report is factual, simply because, unlike the basis of any skepticism, which is his posting in the thread, you dont have any grounds for that.

    My opinions on the being reserved, atheist, or sex are besides the point, as I largely suspect they are besides the point in Danseen's therapy.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    OK, says somebody who refers to themselves as "Nerd Girl". Lack of self-esteem?
    How do you not see that as hostile?

    You're going to fast track yourself on to ignore, unlike you're therapist no one here has to interact with you and its hard to have any kind of discussion by yourself.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    Look, you said my point was "nonsense".

    You then said my point was "empty validation".

    You then say I am "narcissistic".

    lolol..

    Why then do you presume I must respond well to your comments? Either you have a huge ego, or you're insecure. Unless we're related by blood, or somehow know each other, I don't get why you are so eager for me to respond "well" to you. I blame the PC society, to many normal people interactions are shallow unless trust/respect is earned.
    I didnt say those things, and I only gave you some advice about how to communicate well.

    I hope being a defensive asshole works out for you in therapy because its not going to work out well for you in the threads here, people will ignore you and then you'll have to decide if its worth feeling interaction with others is a battle to be fought and "won" if that is the outcome.

    Good luck with that.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    I'm saying that I'm not a typical INTP. And?


    If you are hostile, then so am I. Why do you presume strangers must owe you their time? If you respond in a hostile manner, others will to you.


    So you resent intelligence, which I don't believe I am, and hold an unhealthy attitude towards it? Ok....


    Narcissism? No, you mocked my posts and OP, so this is how people respond. I never mock anybody's posts here, since if you truly don't care then it makes no sense to post.


    haha.. If you make judgments of me, I make them of you. You're insinuting you hold some "upper hand" here, but I don't know nor care...
    I really, really see why you're seeing a therapist.

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