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  1. #71
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I befriended a very lovely, unusual, deep girl who I said right to her, "You are an INFP." She was like, "Waaa?" I sent her the test and asked her to tell me the results. She emailed me back, "I'm INFP."

    You described it above! We were trying to volunteer together (she with 3 of us on staff) and she completely alienated the other 2. I was the only one who "got" her and could be gentle with her. She had this expectation that whatever she was doing (in a huge- very busy undertaking involving tons of volunteers) could be analyzed, scrutinized, rewarded etc. when really- we just needed all hands on deck to get a job done. She would write pages and pages of expository email expressing all this emotion seemingly out of left field about the situation and my comrades were absolutely befuddled. She finally just quit because she couldn't take it. Poor kid- she had the heart to do it but then TOO much heart to do it. SO intense- never met someone so deeply introspective and emotional and taking the weight of the world not on her shoulders- but into her soul.
    That sounds more unhealthy e4 than INFP, although of course many e4 are INFP (but they are other NFs & sometimes SFs too).
    The openness in pouring out emotion in email to other people is not very IxFP though, as feelings and emotion are generally not expressed directly on any regular basis. Looking for constant feedback is not very IxFP either, as the the type is said to show an almost extreme indifference to it.

    I think Naranjo connected unhealthy e4 to BPD. Enneagram is more about unhealthy fixations & mentalities than Jungian type/MBTI which is more about cognitive preferences (not necessarily healthy or unhealthy). Because of the way tests are written, depressed & unhealthy people may type INFP when they are not. If these people recover, they may find they are not INFP. This has happened on these forums & elsewhere.

    Fi is actually rational for an INFP though, so equating this kind of emotional reacting to Fi is a misunderstanding of it. Under severe stress or depression, all personalities can become distorted so that it's hard to tell what preference they were to begin with.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #72
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That sounds more unhealthy e4 than INFP...

    Based solely on personal observation, research, etc. I would correlate BPD with e4 and e6w5cp and FJ (leaning NFJ.)

    I am of the opinion that the unpredictable, erratic behavior merely gives the impression of Pe/Fi.

    *This is not to suggest that there aren't plenty of disorders correlated with FP or NFP...surely there are but, contrary to popular thinking on this, I am of the opinion that BPD not one of them.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Based solely on personal observation, research, etc. I would correlate BPD with e4 and e6w5cp and FJ (leaning NFJ.)

    I am of the opinion that the unpredictable, erratic behavior merely gives the impression of Pe/Fi.

    *This is not to suggest that there aren't plenty of disorders correlated with FP or NFP...surely there are but, contrary to popular thinking on this, I am of the opinion that BPD not one of them.
    This is not true BPD is correlated with ENFPs and their unhealthy use of Ne+Te loop. But for BPD the self identity is usually so unstable it is not possible to guess the type. You're right about e4 and e6 though with so poor self identity they hardly can be real 4s but might seem like them.

  4. #74
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    This is not true BPD is correlated with ENFPs and their unhealthy use of Ne+Te loop. But for BPD the self identity is usually so unstable it is not possible to guess the type. You're right about e4 and e6 though with so poor self identity they hardly can be real 4s but might seem like them.

    I've heard many people make that same claim...that BPD is correlated with ENFP (I haven't heard anything regarding the Ne+Te loop though and I can't see how over-extroverting would be its source since BPD takes hold so early in life...long before an individual would be equipped with what is needed to 'loop')...and I don't have a problem with that at all if I was able to get my hands on anything that wasn't just that...a statement. Do you have anything credible on this that I could read? (fwiw...I thought my sister was an ENFP too.)

    Like I just said to another member...once you really start looking deeply into the disorder you begin to understand that it doesn't exist without extroverted judgment...(that it's one extreme 'final decision' after another)...but again, I'd change my thinking on this if someone could produce something that made use of science in some small way... (and again wasn't merely a statement.)

    I would definitely associate ENFP with ADD, ADHD, HPD...possibly NPD...but not BPD.

  5. #75
    Ginkgo
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    When you're close to someone, it's easy to convince yourself that you have enough authority to diagnose them, especially when you're searching for a way to manage the situation. It can also give you the feeling that you're losing your footing when you're sensitive and you don't want to walk on an eggshell by telling someone that they ought to seek a trained diagnostician.

    @AzulEyes, I think the best way to handle your situation is - the next time you see them behaving in a way that is symptomatic of BPD, tell them that you love them and that you appreciate being their friend, but that you're concerned about their psychological well being.

    It's really as simple as that.

    I've lived with someone who's been diagnosed twice with BPD. It's not pretty; extended periods of exposure to extreme cases can leave you feeling like you're in a bind, helpless. At worst, it can leave you with BPD symptoms in turn.

  6. #76
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    When you're close to someone, it's easy to convince yourself that you have enough authority to diagnose them, especially when you're searching for a way to manage the situation. It can also give you the feeling that you're losing your footing when you're sensitive and you don't want to walk on an eggshell by telling someone that they ought to seek a trained diagnostician.

    @AzulEyes, I think the best way to handle your situation is - the next time you see them behaving in a way that is symptomatic of BPD, tell them that you love them and that you appreciate being their friend, but that you're concerned about their psychological well being.

    It's really as simple as that.

    I've lived with someone who's been diagnosed twice with BPD. It's not pretty; extended periods of exposure to extreme cases can leave you feeling like you're in a bind, helpless. At worst, it can leave you with BPD symptoms in turn.
    Thank you. You are right. I've learned the hard way- coming off a pretty bad week ... really month... of hell. I just want peace. For me. For my friend. Forever. Thank you again so much!
    It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are. ~e.e. cummings

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  7. #77
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That sounds more unhealthy e4 than INFP, although of course many e4 are INFP (but they are other NFs & sometimes SFs too).
    The openness in pouring out emotion in email to other people is not very IxFP though, as feelings and emotion are generally not expressed directly on any regular basis. Looking for constant feedback is not very IxFP either, as the the type is said to show an almost extreme indifference to it.

    I think Naranjo connected unhealthy e4 to BPD. Enneagram is more about unhealthy fixations & mentalities than Jungian type/MBTI which is more about cognitive preferences (not necessarily healthy or unhealthy). Because of the way tests are written, depressed & unhealthy people may type INFP when they are not. If these people recover, they may find they are not INFP. This has happened on these forums & elsewhere.

    Fi is actually rational for an INFP though, so equating this kind of emotional reacting to Fi is a misunderstanding of it. Under severe stress or depression, all personalities can become distorted so that it's hard to tell what preference they were to begin with.
    Great points! Thanks so much. And frankly, I do not know other INFPs (that I'm aware) to even compare. I think about that. How you said depressed can test as INFP. What if you are a depressed NT? or SF? Would you simply type as your shadow under duress? Interesting stuff!
    It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are. ~e.e. cummings

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  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I've heard many people make that same claim...that BPD is correlated with ENFP (I haven't heard anything regarding the Ne+Te loop though and I can't see how over-extroverting would be its source since BPD takes hold so early in life...long before an individual would be equipped with what is needed to 'loop')...and I don't have a problem with that at all if I was able to get my hands on anything that wasn't just that...a statement. Do you have anything credible on this that I could read? (fwiw...I thought my sister was an ENFP too.)

    Like I just said to another member...once you really start looking deeply into the disorder you begin to understand that it doesn't exist without extroverted judgment...(that it's one extreme 'final decision' after another)...but again, I'd change my thinking on this if someone could produce something that made use of science in some small way... (and again wasn't merely a statement.)

    I would definitely associate ENFP with ADD, ADHD, HPD...possibly NPD...but not BPD.
    This is one long article about how dominant and teritiary loops effect personality, when they messed up. Besides the explenation why ENFP and BPD you can also find all of the 16 types here and their weak sides of mental health based on cognitive functions. http://personalitycafe.com/articles/...disorders.html

  9. #79
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    I see ENFPs as suffering more from anxiety (over stimulation) and ADD / ADHD too like another poster said.

    And through this exercise where I'm trying to emerge from an unhealthy situation, I have to admit- I'm a bit angry and frustrated. Wherever I've gone for resources online- it appears that my voice is oppressed in this. If I feel I've been victimized by a person exhibiting mega BPD traits- 1- It's not my "place" to diagnose them, so I'm out of luck. 2- They are in such misery, it's not my place to defend myself with them because they are so raw. In other words, I better just "buck up." 3-I'M the one that should seek counseling whilst continuing to NOT suggest that my tormentor has any issues- or if I do make the suggestion, I should be evasive, not at all straight-forward, and walk on eggshells. Sorry- I need to vent here. This is fucked up. These are the people that manipulate their own therapists- and this is the disease the therapists are like, "No thanks. I'll stick with the raging alcoholic dude. But thanks anyway." That's fine if this is what all of this is seemingly about. My hell is invalidated- and I will find my peace from within and work through this. Meanwhile, my friend will continue to walk through the planet in misery and wreaking havoc on his next victims. And that is truly the reality. I am just grateful in the big picture that it is not a family member I'm dealing with that I cannot actually make a break from. I can make a break from this situation- even though I wanted to help. It's pathetically sad. But I'm not going to be drowned by the person I'm trying to save. It's time for me to stick up for myself. It's time for me to save myself.
    It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are. ~e.e. cummings

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  10. #80
    Glycerine
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    Just stop being a victim and acting like a martyr. Step away or find a way to protect yourself if he's crossing boundaries. He clearly has issues but it's really not your responsibility. You seem way too emotionally entrenched in this situation and you seem desperate for people to validate it by using the BPD diagnosis.

    I can see you were trying to help but having a mentality of "saving him" puts you in a "superior" position over him and it's not going to help. He has to hit rock bottom or truly understand the gravity of the situation.

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