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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I know the functions pretty well...my question was not how functions work. My question was: Does an INFJ (Ni+Fe) have to be an INFp (Ni+Fe) in socionics? I know how functions work, I read MBTI descriptions, I read socionics. MBTI and socionics are a bit different, but have a common ground. It's doesn't matter if you say "the fruit that taste like orange", or "an orange" so the differecnes in function descriptions are not important if they share the common ground and if they basicly describe the same thing. Fe-ethical norms and Fe- objective ethics are basicly the same things. The person values and share the ethics, that exist externaly, that means objectvily and not subjectivly in his enviroment...You know...subject the person/my own self, internal, vs. object something outstide of myself, something external. The same is with Te vs. Ti. It's natural, that someone with introverted judging function, will be more stubborn, than the person with extroveter judging function... I think socionics and MBTI are like when a granny talks to her granddaughter, they both might talk about the same thing, but granny uses the words, that for young granddaughter sounds old and strange and she doesn't really understand, what granny wanted to say. So the granddaughter will say the same things, with the words, that are close to her personality and to her age, but they might by talking about 100% same thing. So Ni is Ni also in MBTI and aslo in socionics, but maybe said with different words. So Ni+Fe in MBTI has to be Ni+Fe in socionics? Or am I wrong? I know, that we all are Se+Ti to some point as much as we all are Ni+Fe to some point, but the function order makes the difference. When the difference is once set in one typology it can't be different in another one...or can it be? This is just my point...how much are the MBTI and socionics similar? If they are not as similar as I think, then why? How? Bonus question: Why do you see Ti in my questions? I am typed as ENFP, I don't think they use much of a Ti.
    the functions are the same across the systems. yes.

    however you can be one kiersey type and something completely unrelated in socionics.

  2. #12
    Member chaoticbrain's Avatar
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    What they mean or should mean, is that you shouldn't assume you are correct about your type. And especially if it's based on the four dichotomies.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaoticbrain View Post
    What they mean or should mean, is that you shouldn't assume you are correct about your type. And especially if it's based on the four dichotomies.
    Why I should not assume I am correct about my type? Oh...I did not get very close to 4 dichotomies. I guess more research would be needed there for me, can you somehow describe me how do they work please?

  4. #14
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I know the functions pretty well...my question was not how functions work. My question was: Does an INFJ (Ni+Fe) have to be an INFp (Ni+Fe) in socionics? I know how functions work, I read MBTI descriptions, I read socionics. MBTI and socionics are a bit different, but have a common ground. It's doesn't matter if you say "the fruit that taste like orange", or "an orange" so the differecnes in function descriptions are not important if they share the common ground and if they basicly describe the same thing. Fe-ethical norms and Fe- objective ethics are basicly the same things. The person values and share the ethics, that exist externaly, that means objectvily and not subjectivly in his enviroment...You know...subject the person/my own self, internal, vs. object something outstide of myself, something external. The same is with Te vs. Ti. It's natural, that someone with introverted judging function, will be more stubborn, than the person with extroveter judging function... I think socionics and MBTI are like when a granny talks to her granddaughter, they both might talk about the same thing, but granny uses the words, that for young granddaughter sounds old and strange and she doesn't really understand, what granny wanted to say. So the granddaughter will say the same things, with the words, that are close to her personality and to her age, but they might by talking about 100% same thing. So Ni is Ni also in MBTI and aslo in socionics, but maybe said with different words. So Ni+Fe in MBTI has to be Ni+Fe in socionics? Or am I wrong? I know, that we all are Se+Ti to some point as much as we all are Ni+Fe to some point, but the function order makes the difference. When the difference is once set in one typology it can't be different in another one...or can it be? This is just my point...how much are the MBTI and socionics similar? If they are not as similar as I think, then why? How? Bonus question: Why do you see Ti in my questions? I am typed as ENFP, I don't think they use much of a Ti.
    You're right about the first two functions being the same. And I can understand your confusion.
    But look at the weaker functions in both systems. They are different. And that means you can't simply switch the types around.

    Lets look at istj and istp.

    In Socionics the functions go
    Ti, Se, Fi, Ne for istj.

    Si, Te, Ni, Fe for istp.

    And in mbti the functions go
    Si, Te, Fi, Ne for istj.

    Ti, Se, Ni, Fe for istp.

    Which means in mbti, the istj has Si as his strongest function and Ne as his weakest,
    and then in Socionics the istj has Ti as his strongest and Ne as his weakest.

    The mbti istp has Ti as his strongest function, and Fe as his weakest.
    And in Socionics, he has Si as his strongest function, and Fe as his weakest.

    So at least both systems agree on that much. istj is weakest in Ne, and istp is weakest in Fe.
    But both types can't exist in nature, so one typology must be wrong. Or they are both wrong.

    If an istj was to be moved around a lot in their job, having to adjust to new situations, just when they were starting to get comfortable and familiar in their job, and if they were being moved around a lot, they would not be happy campers. Their weak Ne couldn't handle it.
    Too much change, too much uncertainty. An istp could cope though. Same with Fe. Someone breaks into song around an istp, and they will not get anything back. They may even tell you to stop singing. Weak Fe. Do the same with an istj, and they wont flinch the same way an istp would.
    What I'm trying to get at, is that the weaker functions shouldn't be overlooked. It's not a simple switch.
    Oh and mbti is wrong.
    There is no such thing as a human who uses Ti as his leading function and Fe as his weakest.
    That person is just a fantasy dreamed up by mbti.
    The reason I know such a person could not exist, is that Ti needs Fe to balance it out.
    If Ti was your strongest function, and Fe your weakest, inferiorest, most detestable, then Ti would take over and you would be a robot.


    Oh and the personal example you gave about the grandmother and the child, to get your point across, suggests enfp to me.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    You're right about the first two functions being the same. And I can understand your confusion.
    But look at the weaker functions in both systems. They are different. And that means you can't simply switch the types around.

    Lets look at istj and istp.

    In Socionics the functions go
    Ti, Se, Fi, Ne for istj.

    Si, Te, Ni, Fe for istp.

    And in mbti the functions go
    Si, Te, Fi, Ne for istj.

    Ti, Se, Ni, Fe for istp.

    Which means in mbti, the istj has Si as his strongest function and Ne as his weakest,
    and then in Socionics the istj has Ti as his strongest and Ne as his weakest.

    The mbti istp has Ti as his strongest function, and Fe as his weakest.
    And in Socionics, he has Si as his strongest function, and Fe as his weakest.

    So at least both systems agree on that much. istj is weakest in Ne, and istp is weakest in Fe.
    But both types can't exist in nature, so one typology must be wrong. Or they are both wrong.

    If an istj was to be moved around a lot in their job, having to adjust to new situations, just when they were starting to get comfortable and familiar in their job, and if they were being moved around a lot, they would not be happy campers. Their weak Ne couldn't handle it.
    Too much change, too much uncertainty. An istp could cope though. Same with Fe. Someone breaks into song around an istp, and they will not get anything back. They may even tell you to stop singing. Weak Fe. Do the same with an istj, and they wont flinch the same way an istp would.
    What I'm trying to get at, is that the weaker functions shouldn't be overlooked. It's not a simple switch.
    Oh and mbti is wrong.
    There is no such thing as a human who uses Ti as his leading function and Fe as his weakest.
    That person is just a fantasy dreamed up by mbti.
    The reason I know such a person could not exist, is that Ti needs Fe to balance it out.
    If Ti was your strongest function, and Fe your weakest, inferiorest, most detestable, then Ti would take over and you would be a robot.


    Oh and the personal example you gave about the grandmother and the child, to get your point across, suggests enfp to me.
    I think you don't understand MBTI functions.... ISTP's aspirational function is Fe, but not it's weakest function. ISTP's weakest function in MBTI is their eight function which is Fi and it's also called the devilish funtcion.(Not Ne, Ne is the weakest for ESTPs) In socionics the weakest (devilish) function is the 4th function, while the 8th function is aspirational and it is Fe for ISTP. So Ti can't go with Fe in either socionics and MBTI. The socionics ordered the functions as ego block, super ego block and super id block, while the MBTI ordered functions as ego block, id block and super ego block... So the 8th function in socionics is the same as 4th function in MBTI.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I think you don't understand MBTI functions.... ISTP's aspirational function is Fe, but not it's weakest function. ISTP's weakest function in MBTI is their eight function which is Fi and it's also called the devilish funtcion.(Not Ne, Ne is the weakest for ESTPs) In socionics the weakest (devilish) function is the 4th function, while the 8th function is aspirational and it is Fe for ISTP. So Ti can't go with Fe in either socionics and MBTI. The socionics ordered the functions as ego block, super ego block and super id block, while the MBTI ordered functions as ego block, id block and super ego block... So the 8th function in socionics is the same as 4th function in MBTI.
    There's nothing in Socionics about Fe being aspirational for istp's. Have you got a link you can back up your claim with?
    What you're describing there is far too messy. Nature is simple. It's not as complicated as you have just made it.
    And you actually contradicted yourself too. I don't think you understand it very well. If you did, you'd be able to explain it simply. Like I did.

  7. #17
    Member chaoticbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Why I should not assume I am correct about my type? Oh...I did not get very close to 4 dichotomies. I guess more research would be needed there for me, can you somehow describe me how do they work please?
    Well you could read Jung ?

    But these are descriptions I like.

    Perception.



    Judgement

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