Now adolescence lasts until the person is 25

[Lark]

I think a lot of people do like that carefree dependency, though. Why, I can't fathom. People often express how much they miss childhood because it was "simpler".

In terms of the carefree dependency, its always more dependency than it is carefree, that's the thing, now I suppose it'd be possible to keep enough angst or enmity around to avoid facing it but if you do comprehend your dependency on others its generally not one of those joyful happy moments.

 

[skylights]

Kids need to be out, roll in mud, play with their friends, fight, laugh, hug, blow bubbles, play in their own worlds of imagination.. technology should be the last thing they touch so they can have healthier patterns of social interaction and behavior- not from a machine or behind a screen but actual real "live" people in person. They need to feel that connection!

We all need it, still. I trust that there will be a counter-technology swing, just as we seem to be in a pro-technology one now. Not that I am at all against technology - I enjoy it - but I think it is overly pervasive in some ways. I actually have been just recently trying to limit it more in my own life.

I think a lot of people do like that carefree dependency, though. Why, I can't fathom. People often express how much they miss childhood because it was "simpler".

Well, for one, our brains worked differently. It was simpler because we perceived it more simply. We also were not "active" world-influencers. Now we carry the responsibility of being adult citizens with rights and responsibilities.

Me personally, I really enjoyed my childhood and look back on it nostalgically. I was very family-attached, very imaginative, and very approval-seeking, so for me childhood was awesome. I got to do a lot of things I really liked, with few that I really didn't, I didn't have to worry about bills, and I was guided and affirmed every step of the way by my intelligent, academic dad and nurturing, supportive mom. I think that's the big difference for me. Back then, I felt like I was surrounded by all these people who complimented me and supported me and encouraged me, just because. Now if I want that sort of support I have to seek it out.

To be fair, driving and sex are pretty awesome, so I'm getting to like adulthood too. I think the early 20s when you're just starting out can be a rough transition time for someone who's enjoyed childhood, though. I'm looking forward to finishing up my degree and getting into my career, and I think I'll be a whole lot happier once I'm there, since I'll be in an environment that's pleasing to me again. Plus my crappy paycheck just isn't cutting it, compared to the lease on my parents' bank account I used to have!

 

[Elfboy]

All of this. Just. So. Ridiculous.
Maybe squeeze in talking to a woman somewhere in there. They might have a bit of info on their own sexual primes. Also what is the relevance of gay men to female sexuality?
Also if find you idea of honest amongst men ....silly.

they're plastic surgeons and have done plenty of research, so listening to their opinions is far from ridiculous.

for the record, I'm talking about sexual appeal to heterosexual men.

my personal opinion is that older women are cooler looking, better dressed and much more pleasurable company than younger women (younger women annoy the shit out of me. I can barely be around them for a few hours...)

 

[Pseudo]

they're plastic surgeons and have done plenty of research, so listening to their opinions is far from ridiculous.

for the record, I'm talking about sexual appeal to heterosexual men.

my personal opinion is that older women are cooler looking, better dressed and much more pleasurable company than younger women (younger women annoy the shit out of me. I can barely be around them for a few hours...)

Still ridiculous. Firstly, because measuring "sexual prime" based or desirability to heterosexual men rather than say fertility or maximum pleasure during sex is a completely objectify (and misleading) rationale. That would mean in attractive people essentially have no sexual prime and that we give "prime sexuality" honors to attractive people who might have never had sex or had miserable sex. It's silly. It's also very much in keeping with the more predatory style of relationships you seem to prefer.

The idea that men are not as attracted to women over twenty five or that women's peak sexual desirability falls after their early twenties is just nonsense. I have doubt plastic surgeons are feeding you this garbage.
Take a look at men's magazines many of these women are in their late twenties thirties and even forties. Kim kardashian, who got a 10/10 in your other thread , is in her thirties.

And the branding of All young women as annoying I think is just a hallmark of immaturity and inexperience. Do you have much experience with women?

 

[Stanton Moore]

Well I think this is a good trend, or rather not a bad one. The idea that 18 is the appropriate age to move out, get a job or go to college, then marriage and career seems like a holdover from the 1950’s to me. Most traditional societies lived in large family groups and didn’t push kids out the door at all. So why do we think ours the best and only acceptable method?
Western society is going through some revolutionary changes in technology and economics, so it seems intuitively true to me that this kind of social construct will have to adjust to fit these new circumstances. To say that kids are not mature enough is a leading statement that denies the impact of these forces.
I also think that in America we are dealing with a pandemic of child emotional neglect that has robbed many young people of good self esteem and confidence so I am not surprised at all that they feel a subconscious need to try and get from mom and dad what they should have gotten but did not in their childhood, by staying at home for longer...

 

[Elfboy]

Still ridiculous. Firstly, because measuring "sexual prime" based or desirability to heterosexual men rather than say fertility or maximum pleasure during sex is a completely objectify (and misleading) rationale. That would mean in attractive people essentially have no sexual prime and that we give "prime sexuality" honors to attractive people who might have never had sex or had miserable sex. It's silly. It's also very much in keeping with the more predatory style of relationships you seem to prefer.

The idea that men are not as attracted to women over twenty five or that women's peak sexual desirability falls after their early twenties is just nonsense. I have doubt plastic surgeons are feeding you this garbage.

if you have doubts, watch the clip

Take a look at men's magazines many of these women are in their late twenties thirties and even forties. Kim kardashian, who got a 10/10 in your other thread , is in her thirties.

not saying older women can't be attractive, I'm saying that youth, on average, makes one more attractive (that's a lot of what makeup does. it makes people look younger and healthier)

And the branding of All young women as annoying I think is just a hallmark of immaturity and inexperience. Do you have much experience with women?

there are always exceptions, but I've found most of them are drama queens, try to make all these emotional appeals and rarely want to talk about anything interesting (thought last point applies to most younger men).

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

if you have doubts, watch the clip


not saying older women can't be attractive, I'm saying that youth, on average, makes one more attractive (that's a lot of what makeup does. it makes people look younger and healthier)

I actually like women, and I gotta say, I'm more attracted to women over 25 than under 25. I don't think I can date women under 25 any more. 23 and 24 year olds just seem too young for me these days. Granted, that has more to do with personality than looks, but I clearly see women who are 35 year olds who I think are physically attractive. I think it also helps that I generally find wisdom more attractive than innocence anyway.

As someone who is not attracted to women, are you really going to lecture me on what I find attractive?

 

[Elfboy]

I actually like women, and I gotta say, I'm more attracted to women over 25 than under 25. I don't think I can date women under 25 any more. 23 and 24 year olds just seem too young for me these days. Granted, that has more to do with personality than looks, but I clearly see women who are 35 year olds who I think are physically attractive. I think it also helps that I generally find wisdom more attractive than innocence anyway.
As someone who is not attracted to women, are you really going to lecture me on what I find attractive?

no, but I am going to share what experts believe most men are aroused by. people have a tendency to think "this trend isn't true of me, so it must not be true". in reality, correlations can range from between 1 (100% correlated) to -1 (100% inversely correlated). even if the correlation were only, say, .3, that's still a significant variable (attraction is complicated as hell. the only variables that would be even close to perfectly correlated would be related directly to the health of the individual)
1) one variable effects the other
or
2) a third variable is effecting both variables (for instance, both ice cream sales and drowning related deaths occur more frequently when it is hot outside)

also, you are describing attraction holistically. yes, older women often have far more ideal personalities than younger women and will more than likely make more suitable partners for you, but I'm talking about attraction strictly in terms of sex appeal/"this gives me a boner".

 

[Galena]

On the bright side, biology essentially ensures we will come into our own - we're irrevocably set on autopilot for it.

Do you have a source for this? The OP makes me uncomfortable, but not rationally, just as a type A personality who is afraid of taking pressure off. I think this counterargument would be healthy for me to delve into.

 

[iNtrovert]

Good, I have 3 more years before I have to pretend to be an adult.

My thoughts exactly .

 

[FDG]

no, but I am going to share what experts believe most men are aroused by.

also, you are describing attraction holistically. yes, older women often have far more ideal personalities than younger women and will more than likely make more suitable partners for you, but I'm talking about attraction strictly in terms of sex appeal/"this gives me a boner".

Really I think most men would equally gladly bone a 18 and a 35 yo of equal attractivness. Because while yes, the 18 yo might have less wrinkles and a better skin tone (which is what your youtube shows), 35 yo can often "carry themselves" much better and (believe it or not) they often take much more care of their bodies and, least but not least, are often much more sexually "open".

 

[King sns]

I don't see why not. I think that if you're forced to grow up due to circumstances you will. Most people will live up to expectations especially in times of need. If a person doesn't have to do that, why rob them of their youth? It probably helps the economy too. A bunch of young people walking around with their low income paying for their iphones etc.

 

[Elfboy]

Really I think most men would equally gladly bone a 18 and a 35 yo of equal attractivness. Because while yes, the 18 yo might have less wrinkles and a better skin tone (which is what your youtube shows)

it's a little more complicated than that. the facial structure and position of the facial "mask" also change significantly.

35 yo can often "carry themselves" much better and (believe it or not) they often take much more care of their bodies and, last but not least, are often much more sexually "open".

this doesn't surprise me

 

[FDG]

it's a little more complicated than that. the facial structure and position of the facial "mask" also change significantly.


this doesn't surprise me

So what's the conclusion? Older women, up to a point, make up what they lose in "facial mask" (whatever that means) with other qualities, thus the final amount of "attractivness" remains fairly stable.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

So what's the conclusion? Older women, up to a point, make up what they lose in "facial mask" (whatever that means) with other qualities, thus the final amount of "attractivness" remains fairly stable.

From an aesthetic standpoint I find the distinct cheekbones and profile more regal on women in their 30's. Teenagers still have a lot of baby fat on their cheeks and so look more like little girls. If I were gay I think the preference for the beauty of women from at least age 25-35+ (depending) would translate into sexual attraction.

For myself I was definitely most attractive from about 25-35. It would actually be kinda interesting to have people post a pic from each decade of their life and compare how individuals looked.

One other consideration also is that while teenage girls tend to all look quite similar, after 30 women start looking a lot different from each other based on what life requires of them.

 

[Randomnity]

no, but I am going to share what experts believe most men are aroused by.

Plastic surgeons, who make a very good living preying on insecure people trying to look younger, claim that men are most attracted to women who look as young as possible, and that older women are hopelessly unappealing?

I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Kudos for the effort. I respect stubbornness, I do. But there is a point where it becomes silly, and that point is when you're believing advertising over people who are telling you that it conflicts with their actual reality.

 

[Elfboy]

Plastic surgeons, who make a very good living preying on insecure people trying to look younger, claim that men are most attracted to women who look as young as possible, and that older women are hopelessly unappealing?
I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Kudos for the effort. I respect stubbornness, I do. But there is a point where it becomes silly, and that point is when you're believing advertising over people who are telling you that it conflicts with their actual reality.

I am believing people with related scientific backgrounds as opposed to anecdotal evidence (most of it being from women). that makes me neither stubborn nor silly (I can be quite stubborn on occasion, but this is not one of them).

 

[skylights]

Do you have a source for this? The OP makes me uncomfortable, but not rationally, just as a type A personality who is afraid of taking pressure off. I think this counterargument would be healthy for me to delve into.

Sure! Check out the concept of "organismic development", which includes theory like Piaget's cognitive stages or Erikson's psychosocial stages. The idea is that development is coded into our genetic instructions, and we inevitably pass from stage to stage as initiated by internal mechanisms (often age) instead of by external stimuli. In general it's assumed that doing particularly well at a stage will set you up to succeed at the next stage, but there is also plenty of evidence showing that you can fail early on and still succeed later. IMO, it makes a lot of sense biologically because we know that much of physical growth is genetically coded. My suspicion is that, as with almost everything, development is affected by an interplay of genes and environment.

From personal experience having been a super-overachiever and then taking two and a half years off to work after college to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, I can tell you that I was really worried about never finding my drive again but I did, again and again and again. The fire comes from inside and it may flicker, but it doesn't go out. Trust your inner flame.