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  1. #31
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Ha. We are actually pretty similar then. When there is something vulnerable like and animal or child involved, then it is a different scenario than when someone is making choices for just their own life. I don't think any one person completely owns an animal or child, but those most vulnerable are a part of the world. I could get really intrusive if someone is harming an animal and would be past just stealing their pet even if I thought it was bad enough. I would also physically attack and harm someone abusing an animal or a child.

    I struggle with the issue of suicide in those I love because one family member was suicidal all through our college years. I did once say to him that if he had to promise me that if he ever made that choice that he would first think through how it would destroy our mother, sister, and me. I told him I needed to know that would think through those consequences. I actually do go a bit ballistic when suicide talk is on the table with someone I am intimately involved with because it is also a primary source of emotional blackmail. I have also had internet friends who were suicidal, and I tried to give support, but eventually had to just cut off the relationship because of it. I cannot ever entertain that dynamic again. I have also told people who didn't want to live that life isn't about the way we feel, but we live to rescue puppies, kitties, to use the power of our existence to ease some of the pain in the world.

    I've struggled with depression most of my life and have felt plenty enough physical and emotional pain to have those thoughts cross my mind, but I push them away in anger. I hate the selfishness and arrogance of it. I'm personally determined to live to take out as much of the world's pain as possible. I have personal anger towards those ideas on a number of levels and so can get intense when that is introduced.

    You happened to name the two things that can actually get me really angry.
    There is ultimately no meaning other than that which has been conceptualized in the minds and hearts of man.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    There is ultimately no meaning other than that which has been conceptualized in the minds and hearts of man.
    You are forgetting God.

    If there is no meaning other that "invented" by mankind then how on earth do you explain simple cause and effect, natural laws like gravitation or the ordered cosmos? It cant all be an illusion, supposing that it is would be highly unscientific.

  3. #33
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You are forgetting God.

    If there is no meaning other that "invented" by mankind then how on earth do you explain simple cause and effect, natural laws like gravitation or the ordered cosmos? It cant all be an illusion, supposing that it is would be highly unscientific.
    If there is God, which creed is correct? Many, though certainly not all, religions claim to be the only true religion. Only one can be true, since many have contradictory doctrines.

    I am in a cold, lonely place—but it is a rational one.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    If there is God, which creed is correct? Many, though certainly not all, religions claim to be the only true religion. Only one can be true, since many have contradictory doctrines.

    I am in a cold, lonely place—but it is a rational one.
    Religions arent irrational, some of the greatest rationalists in history have been religious, including Aquinas and Aristotale. Religions itself during its great systematising phase saw itself as assailing and opposing superstition and a variety of fears and loathing which had preceeded it.

    Because there are bad, false or poor examples of religion per se or of religions specificially I dont believe invalidates religion generally or specifically, that sort of thinking is pretty dumb and something opponents of religion acutally like to ascribe to a religious mindset. Ironically. Its a little like saying because you've eaten a bad steak that you cant trust steak anymore, infact you cant trust any meat product, in fact perhaps you're going to be a vegan and not any vegan but the sort which will not eat root vegetables or anything growing in the earth, casting a shadow or uprooted at night (Jainism, check it out). No one would think that way, not really, yet those sorts of crazy extremes are common place when people "think" about religion for some reason. Which is a shame.

    I actually believe that God transcends religion, there are even varieties of "Godliness" in some athiest currents, like Mark Vernon and Erich Fromm, and I believe is rooted in the human imagination and experience, seeking to expunge it like a cancer sort of shows you dont understand or appreciate that side of human experience and neither do you want to, it seems a little like wanting to be divested of emotional responses, or some aspect of reasoning or something.

  5. #35
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Religions arent irrational, some of the greatest rationalists in history have been religious, including Aquinas and Aristotale. Religions itself during its great systematising phase saw itself as assailing and opposing superstition and a variety of fears and loathing which had preceeded it.

    Because there are bad, false or poor examples of religion per se or of religions specificially I dont believe invalidates religion generally or specifically, that sort of thinking is pretty dumb and something opponents of religion acutally like to ascribe to a religious mindset. Ironically. Its a little like saying because you've eaten a bad steak that you cant trust steak anymore, infact you cant trust any meat product, in fact perhaps you're going to be a vegan and not any vegan but the sort which will not eat root vegetables or anything growing in the earth, casting a shadow or uprooted at night (Jainism, check it out). No one would think that way, not really, yet those sorts of crazy extremes are common place when people "think" about religion for some reason. Which is a shame.

    I actually believe that God transcends religion, there are even varieties of "Godliness" in some athiest currents, like Mark Vernon and Erich Fromm, and I believe is rooted in the human imagination and experience, seeking to expunge it like a cancer sort of shows you dont understand or appreciate that side of human experience and neither do you want to, it seems a little like wanting to be divested of emotional responses, or some aspect of reasoning or something.
    I do not wish to eradicate it, I am simply uncertain of what is true. I generally subscribe to a form f utilitarianism. If people are happy, an action must have been right.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I do not wish to eradicate it, I am simply uncertain of what is true. I generally subscribe to a form f utilitarianism. If people are happy, an action must have been right.
    You should read Happiness is over rated by a philosopher called bennet or something like that, its a good book.

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    If there is God, which creed is correct? Many, though certainly not all, religions claim to be the only true religion. Only one can be true, since many have contradictory doctrines.
    They are contradictory like the accounts of the blind men examining an elephant. An elephant has a trunk, but the trunk is not the whole of the elephant. They contain truth up to the point that they assert other perspectives are false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I do not wish to eradicate it, I am simply uncertain of what is true. I generally subscribe to a form f utilitarianism. If people are happy, an action must have been right.
    Happiness is not the best yardstick. I would think even utilitarianism would require a more objective output than that.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    because puppies love everyone, but because we're not puppies and have a frontal lobe we're judgemental. therefore you can't escape judgement, it's best to ignore it, unless it's warranted

  9. #39
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I always kind of thought people were critical and judgemental because 1.) it makes them "feel" superior or "look" superior [at least in their own eyes] when they point out preceived flaws in others. 2.) they really wish they had the guts and freedom of will to do a thing themselves, but since they don't, they feel inclined, out of bitterness, resentment, jealousy, whatever to pick the flaws in others. 3.) Jealousy could have a category all on its own. I know of one musician who put a guy down miserably and tried to dissaude him from a musical career and it was done out of pure jealousy. He didn't want this guy receiving more acclaim and praise than he was getting. Petty? You betcha and totally based in insecurity and fear. Most criticism is, or at least I think it is.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #40
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    They are contradictory like the accounts of the blind men examining an elephant. An elephant has a trunk, but the trunk is not the whole of the elephant. They contain truth up to the point that they assert other perspectives are false.


    Happiness is not the best yardstick. I would think even utilitarianism would require a more objective output than that.
    I was raised in a cult that asserted itself as the sole truth and used logic to shoot everyone else down. Now that I have seen flaws in the cult's logic, I'm left kind of just floating in a void without meaning or a sense of right or wrong. Until I can find absolute truth, I will be in an awkward position…
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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