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Am I an Aspie?

Is ygolo an aspie? (please consider carefully, serious question)


  • Total voters
    12

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
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Those of you who have been on the forum a long time know that when I joined both my counselor and I had thought that I might have tendencies that could be classified as somewhere on the Autism Spectrum. I should also note that not all autism spectrum disorders manifest the same.

I had initially decided to refuse the label and embarked on learning as much as could about body language, conversation, leadership, and other things related to the deficits associated with Asperger's Syndrome and Autism Spectrum Disorders.

I posted the following on Experience Project* a little while ago:
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Have-Aspergers-Syndrome/3430359
A lot of the descriptions fit me.

When I take this test on wired magazine's site (http://www.actionpam.com/cgi-bin/aq.cgi) I get a score of 42.

For the most part, I function well enough to get by. I had at one point worked as a circuit designer for on of silicon valley's big players (though not in silicon valley). I am now pursuing a PhD in a scientific field.

I have had three relatively long term relationships. The first time, I allowed myself to get attached, but the other two I refrained to avoid the heart ache of being left. Unfortunately, it also means that these relationships were less meaningful than the first.

My friends, for the most part, like me a lot...or at least I believe they do.

Executive Function:
Still, if I filter my situation through the lens of Asperger's, I believe my research adviser has become frustrated with my lack of executive function.

I am horrible at multi-tasking, which seems to be an integral part of grad student life (teaching, classes, research, and meetings in horrible one to two hour blocks). Although, corporate America can get bad if they schedule a ridiculous amount of meetings, it was never as bad as my first two years as a grad student.

I have always called myself a "high inertia" person. It takes a lot to get me going, but once I do, look out, because you won't be able to stop me.

The problem unfortunately, is now, I am having a hard time getting enough inertia to get me rolling.

I also do have trouble with birthdays, calling family members, and so on. My calendar and smartphone (which reminds me of the birthday of everyone on facebook--really the only reason I have facebook) has helped a lot in this arena.

I am also rather messy and people have often commented that my self care is poor. Ironically, once in a while, people with remark that I am "highly organized" and this will take me by surprised.

Central Coherence:
People often complain that I often don't provide enough context or motivation for my work. They also often say I am too focused on the details. Some even remark that I am "ridiculously" detail oriented.

But I don't think of myself that way (especially considering how disorganized I can be). I, in fact, think of myself as a pattern and "big-picture" person. It just so happens that the big picture I see tends to be quite different from most people.

If I can think of something in mathematical terms, I will. I can, at this point, do this in practically every situation--math is the science of patterns, and what situation does not have patterns?.

Sometimes, however, the mathematical conception adds little of importance to the situation, and at other times adds something that is difficult to relate in world that has increasingly failed to teach mathematics properly to people.

Theory of Mind:
This is the most painful for me to express because I have tried hard to overcome this. I so desperately want to know what others around me are feeling.

I have read on NLP, modalities of learning, books on body language and tone of voice, books on making conversation, books on conflict resolution, books on developing leadership skills, sociological research papers, and much much more. I have also tried out many of the techniques, and use web sites that can help me improve how well I read people. I've also had a coach help me make better eye contact, put more intonation in my speech, open my mouth better while speaking, and to breathe deeply from my diaphram to project better.

I felt like this was helping. But, perhaps, I was building up an overconfidence in something I am still quite poor at.

I say this because I have to teach a little bit every week, and nothing exposes a lack of theory of mind than having 15 to 20 students looking back at me and making expressions that I have no way of deciphering at the moment.

I ask things like "does this make sense" or "do you understand", and of course they all say yes or nod their heads up and down (which even I know means yes, in the US). Other instructors are often able to pick up the fact that some students are just saying yes to save face (there is a deep furrowing of the eye-brows that I have learned to mean confusion, but there is little else). Usually, I have to follow up with a "test" example at which point, I will get students asking for clarifications.

Perhaps, more painfully, is my mistaken reading of romantic interest from a very close friend of mine. To be honest, I had initially thought it was too good to be true, and perhaps I should have trusted that initial reaction.

It seemed like she was getting jealous any time my attention shifted to another friend who came by, or she would get jealous when I talked about my dates. It seemed like she was ridiculously happy, and even giddy near the end of the night. She was talking about romantic movies, calling me a prince, talking about being true to oneself...that night, I felt like I fell in love, and I thought she felt the same way.

But all this was based on reading about body language and practice on facial expression pictures and videos on websites...and frankly a little outside of the range of emotions they had you practice on. Perhaps, loneliness, combined with overconfidence in my learned ability to read people lead to my error in judgement.

Worse, now, my lack of executive function is having me acting really strange towards her. I am acting in ways that are very unlike myself, and rather impulsive (though I would not say "spontaneous").

Before you rush in and say that I am just beating myself, let me caution you by saying that the associated problems do not go away simply by wishing them to.

Also, check out:
http://www.ted.com/talks/temple_grandin_the_world_needs_all_kinds_of_minds.html
http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/asperger-syndrome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=At4Vmo13vJE
http://www.autismspeaks.org/

*Since, I am no longer particularly interested in typology, and many of the people I knew here have stopped posting, I am searching for new forums. If you want to try this out with me, please join and add me.
 

93JC

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Messages
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Based on my interactions with you, no. Based on this post, no, not really.

People with Asperger's have a profound lack of social awareness, which you do not have. In fact your efforts to improve your social 'skills' and to better read people's reactions point very strongly toward being a normal, "non-Aspie" human being. If you had Asperger's it never would have occurred to you to do any of this. You never would have noticed a 'problem'.
 

Rasofy

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I ask things like "does this make sense" or "do you understand", and of course they all say yes or nod their heads up and down (which even I know means yes, in the US). Other instructors are often able to pick up the fact that some students are just saying yes to save face (there is a deep furrowing of the eye-brows that I have learned to mean confusion, but there is little else). Usually, I have to follow up with a "test" example at which point, I will get students asking for clarifications.
If even after reading books on voice tone and body language you are still having problems recognizing emotions that seem pretty evident to other people, I think that suggests some form of autism.

Males misinterpreting signs of attraction is a pretty common occurence though.
 

Rasofy

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But all this was based on reading about body language and practice on facial expression pictures and videos on websites...and frankly a little outside of the range of emotions they had you practice on. Perhaps, loneliness, combined with overconfidence in my learned ability to read people lead to my error in judgement
How did you conclude that your reading was wrong? Did she directly state that she's not interested?
 

Azure Flame

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Are you an enneagram 6? if so, you're probably also a hypochondriac.
 

ygolo

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Based on my interactions with you, no. Based on this post, no, not really.

People with Asperger's have a profound lack of social awareness, which you do not have. In fact your efforts to improve your social 'skills' and to better read people's reactions point very strongly toward being a normal, "non-Aspie" human being. If you had Asperger's it never would have occurred to you to do any of this. You never would have noticed a 'problem'.

This is a very common misconception. Asperger's Syndome people are not freaks of nature, nor are they second cousins of psycopaths. Most actually do want very badly to connect and have empathy. Did you look at any of the Autism Videos I linked?


How did you conclude that your reading was wrong? Did she directly state that she's not interested?

She has in fact requested that I cease all contact with her. You cannot get more clear than that.

Are you an enneagram 6? if so, you're probably also a hypochondriac.
I think all typology is mostly BS, but when I did the self-discovery process for enneagram, I was clearly a type 5. I leaned a little toward 5w4, but 5w6 was possible too.
 

93JC

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This is a very common misconception. Asperger's Syndome people are not freaks of nature, nor are they second cousins of psycopaths. Most actually do want very badly to connect and have empathy. Did you look at any of the Autism Videos I linked?

I don't need to waste my time watching videos on the internet to know what Asperger's syndrome looks like.

You asked the question and I gave you an answer. I'm not going to debate it with you.
 

Ivy

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I have to agree with ygolo. Many, many people with Asperger's syndrome DO have "conscious incompetence" about their social inadequacies and come up with rote ways to deal with them on their own. It's a spectrum and not everyone on it is extremely impaired. When my son was diagnosed, the psychiatrists did a lengthy parent interview, and when they would ask about certain behaviors a lot of the time my husband (never diagnosed) would answer "Yeah, he does that, but so did I when I was his age." At one point one of the psychiatrists gently pointed out that autism has a genetic component, and that the way we were answering the questions indicated that if the diagnostic criteria being used now had been in place when my husband was young, he most likely would have been diagnosed then. They said if he thought it would help, he could come back for his own assessment, but that usually by his age people with high-functioning autism who were never diagnosed or treated for it had come up with their own systems to deal with it, which he has.

ygolo, I will need to come back and read your posts more thoroughly when I have more time to give you my feedback on them, but I will say that I've found autism to be characterized by "peaks and valleys"-- many people with autism will have areas in which they are ENORMOUSLY capable, and areas in which they struggle. Everyone has that, of course, but the person with autism has higher peaks and lower valleys than the neurotypical person. But in as many ways as it is an impairment, it can also be a gift. I wouldn't choose to make my son un-autistic because it would change who he is. And I like who he is, very much- but more importantly, he likes who he is.

A side note: Asperger's has been subsumed into "autism spectrum disorder" in the DSM-IV but people are still using it casually- I don't usually, unless I think the person I'm speaking to will understand it better.
 
I

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Maybe you just have a few traits of it. I for example have some of the traits, but would not consider myself a full-on Aspie.
 

Ivy

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That's a possibility- there are people who have some quirks that could be associated with the spectrum, but not enough or severe enough to be diagnosable. My daughter would never be diagnosed with autism, but she has some sensory issues that are often associated with the autism spectrum.
 

Rasofy

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She has in fact requested that I cease all contact with her. You cannot get more clear than that.
You managed to creep out a "very close friend" after having pretty much all the theoretical knowledge not to do it.

You strike me as fairly cautious and considerate person. Based on the logical integrity of your posts, I'd guess you have a fairly high IQ, so the learning-applying process shouldn't have been an issue for you.

All in all, the only explanation I can see for the events narrated is that you have some significant degree of autism.
 

ygolo

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I found this rather comforting.
http://aspielife.blogspot.com/2007/12/loneliness.html
DEC
29
Loneliness
Loneliness has been a constant companion in my life. I laugh when I read the news articles which try to say that people with Asperger's "have no desire for human companionship." I can't speak for all - it may be true of some, but it has certainly not been true for me. It can feel like a curse - having the acute desire for human interaction, togetherness, but constantly struggling to make it happen.

The holiday season has always been especially difficult for me. There are many expectations created by the stories and depictions in the popular media of the "joyous" holiday season. For me, it's often been difficult to reconcile these expectations with my actual reality.

This is the time for the parties that you're not invited to. Or if you are invited - you feel like an outsider as everyone else mixes and mingles when you find yourself tongue tied in a corner. It's a time for family celebrations, which don't measure up to the idealized "Currier & Ives" pictures people have in their minds.

It's the time of year when you have to wrap your mind around how to maneuver your way around the social dilemmas that give even socially gifted people trouble.

Through this holiday season, I've been thinking about this a lot. How many people are out there suffering, because they feel that Christmas should be like the movies? Or because they feel even more acutely the desire to "fit in," and feel even more acutely their failure to do so? Or simply feel more alone, when everyone is feeling togetherness, and you're at home alone...

I was rooting around in some of my old papers this afternoon, and I found a journal entry I wrote in my teens, which I think echoes what many people with AS feel, perhaps more intensely this time of year.

"I get so very sad, yet no one around seems to understand. I really wish I had someone. The only way I have to explain it is through my writing or through my stories, and that is hard to express. I know any one who has known me for any amount of time gets tired of my stories. I don't know. It's so lonely to spend my life jumping back and forth from here to there.

I never have had a chance to have a normal life...Why do I have to be so different?

I spend all my life trying to find someone who will understand, but because of my life, I wind up having to give them a tutorial about how I act and why. I know it sounds pompous and stupid, but what else have I to do?

I find no one else like me in my life. I have nothing in common with anyone...I feel trapped in a world that judges me at every turn and yet never bothers to try to help or understand.

My whole life has been spend trying to figure other people out. I've always felt left out. I'm a watcher because that's all I really know how to be - all I really can be. People say I'm stuck up and a snob. I don't like to think that I am.

I love people. I'd love to be with them, but my life is so different, my motivations so strange. I feel I have to compromise some of myself to get along with anyone else...So I am left with two options - to live always compromising parts of myself, never getting to be myself, or to live my life lonely and alone.

Even though I know have gifts, there are times when I'd do anything to give up those gifts just so can be a normal person...People tell me that they can't talk to me because it takes too much energy, but does that mean that I will be forced to spend the rest of my life being a hermit? Will there ever be anyone who is willing to work to be with me? Will anyone climb the mountain?"

Back when I wrote this, I had no idea why I was different. I just knew that I was. I thought I was alone in feeling this way. In the last five years, I've come to learn that I'm not. Through the miracle of the internet, I've learned that there are many more of you out there.

So, if any one of you is feeling alone tonight, remember that perception isn't always reality. When I thought I was alone in the world, I wasn't. When I thought that no one else would ever understand or feel the way I did, I was wrong. It was just a question of finding the other people like me.

The idealized depictions of Christmas aren't the reality for most, if not all, so don't think that you're the odd ball because your holiday is different. We all have our disappointments in life -but we can find our way. We can find our own crowd, and our own way of celebrating - that's fine.

And even if you have to celebrate alone -that's OK. Love yourself to know that a celebration alone can be just as valuable as one with others - it's all in how you handle it. If living with Asperger's teaches us anything, it teaches us how to live with ourselves. For some of us, our only friends are ourselves. You can focus on being alone, or you can make the most of what you do have - you.

You can go out and watch people. You can stay home and watch Star Trek. You can write, or listen to music that makes you happy. Or you can find a small, trusted group - that understand you and overlook your eccentricities.

In any event, the holidays don't have to be sad. Don't be lonely. There are others of us out there. There are others who understand. If you're lonely, my thoughts and prayers are with you, as are the thoughts and prayers of many others out there. You are not alone.

I'm praying that each and every one of you have a wonderful holiday season, alone or together.

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Happy Holidays!

Unfortunately, despite the comfort of knowing I am not alone, my loneliness also has a strong physical component to it, and words alone are not going to help. I sit here hugging myself and rocking back and forth, and that keeps some of the pain at bay.
 

Jonny

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Hmmm, I scored a 14. Without having 1) taken the test and 2) compared your results to mine, I would have been inclined to say you didn't have Asperger's. When we met for lunch, you seemed to respond normally to social cues, and were generally good at mirroring mood and identifying subtle intent (although I am aware that these behaviors can be learned by those with mild and even more severe Autism). As an aside, being unable to properly identify interest/disinterest in a potential mate isn't necessarily a sign or symptom exclusive to Autism, in particular because our own hope and lust can blind us to things we would otherwise plainly see. That said, your score seems to tell a different story.

The disparity between our scores, coupled with my recollection of the questions asked, makes me think there could be something to your score. As I recall, many of the questions involved having an obsessive focus on details, or not being particularly comfortable or adept in social situations. You would have to answer quite a few of the questions in ways that seem to me to be odd, based upon my understanding of normal human behavior. Looking back at them now, it's hard for me to believe that you genuinely scored a 42. You don't seem like someone who gets lost in minutiae or is unable to identify someone's mood... Are you sure your perception of yourself is accurate? In other words, are you sure your answers weren't biased in favor of producing a higher score than is accurate?
 

ygolo

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I remember taking that test a long time ago, and the score being similar. I believe it was around the same time my counselor suggested I check out the support group. I wasn't sure if I started posting on this site by then or not. It was very close in time.

If it was a test posted here, chances are that I took it. I did a cursory search, but didn't find it. I can try using google. But I am going back and forth between falling asleep and wakefulness.

EDIT: I looked at the questions again. I don't believe I am purposely skewing the score. It doesn't take much. Just being one spot over on all the questions can add 40 points.

Similar to what Temple Grandin mentioned in her TED talk. It is a spectrum, with many of the traits being useful for people who are neurotypical as well. Where geek/nerd ends and the Autism Spectrum begins isn't that clear to me. Frankly, I doubt it is clear to anyone.

Also, I have nephew who is only at the age of 4 starting to talk in a way the rest of us can understand, and another cousin who diagnosed autistic. There are also some indications that Bipolar Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorder have some co-morbidity. I doubt you would have said I was bipolar if you didn't know that about me to begin with.

A lot of my manerisms come from decades of practice. My conversational pace and timing is also explicitly learned (I wait for either a long pause or for you to look at me).
 

RaptorWizard

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If you weren't diagnosed with aspergers as a kid, that greatly reduces the chances that you actually have it.

I used to have PDD as a kid, but I outgrew it very quickly with 2 years of intense special assistance between ages 3 to 5.

My social skills on a natural level frankly suck really badly, but I can at least interact on fundamental levels with most people, even if I come across as odd.
 

JivinJeffJones

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I'm sorry ygolo, I don't really know you well enough to have an opinion one way or the other. You didn't come across on vent as strange (just quiet), which was possibly strange in and of itself in that environment. I'm just wondering if you've had much to do with people with aspergers/autism? I'm particularly wondering how a friendship or romance between two such people might look. Would the traits which hinder bonding with 'normal' people unite two aspies with common ground? Or would they double the barriers? It might be worth looking into. Two people who are lonely for the same reasons may well click.
 

ygolo

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Well, there was a time I visited a support group for those on the Autism Spectrum. That's about it. I wouldn't be surprised if I ran into others before without realizing it. I've worked in fields where it's common.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I've noticed hyperfocus in your posts [MENTION=825]ygolo[/MENTION]. I can't tell socially because I've never been on chat with you. You don't seem to joke around or have a social banter, but that could just be introversion.

There is a whole range of neuro-atypical issues that are not well explored, especially for highly intelligent people. Labels can be helpful or limiting because if you do fit with the category of Aspbergers, you will only have certain fundamental issues in common. The diversity amongst high functioning autism and Aspbergers is enormous. It can be helpful to get a sense of one's strengths and setbacks honestly to know how best to live and make choices.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I'm sorry ygolo, I don't really know you well enough to have an opinion one way or the other. You didn't come across on vent as strange (just quiet), which was possibly strange in and of itself in that environment. I'm just wondering if you've had much to do with people with aspergers/autism? I'm particularly wondering how a friendship or romance between two such people might look. Would the traits which hinder bonding with 'normal' people unite two aspies with common ground? Or would they double the barriers? It might be worth looking into. Two people who are lonely for the same reasons may well click.
If two people could negotiate life together with these same issues I think it could be very healthy. The difficulty comes in the sensory and emotional sensitivities and resistance to change.

I've taught music to close to a dozen people who are high-functioning autism. Each one is completely unique. It would be difficult to make a description that fits them all. There are issues like being upset if a clock is replaced, needing to play straight through every song in their book before going on, coming close to a melt-down when seeing a social conflict, having hyper-focus on interest, but being oblivious to external deadline and paperwork, etc. One Aspbergers woman I work with has a conflict disorder, can completely lack empathy and yet give focused criticisms, but then write the most emotionally touching songs.

The underlying issues that seem to tie it together include hyper-focus internally combined with obliviousness in other areas; hypersensitivity and rigidity about sensory aspects of the environment; emotional issues of melt-down or shut-down when overstimulated.
 

five sounds

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Unfortunately, even doctors have a really hard time diagnosing Autism. Ask yourself, what would a diagnosis of Autism do for you? Like many have expressed here, we all have our areas of strength and weakness. You are obviously aware and working on improving or compensating for your areas of weakness, which is more than some people can say. I say keep finding resources to help you where you need it. If those resources are coming from publications about Autism, and you find them helpful, then keep using them. If you think a diagnosis would help give you peace of mind or would enable you to be admitted to different social or community groups you think would be helpful, then I say talk to your doctor about your concerns.

Life with limited pragmatic skills can be tough, but I'm sure you'd math circles around me. Best of luck!
 
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