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View Poll Results: Is ygolo an aspie? (please consider carefully, serious question)

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Thread: Am I an Aspie?

  1. #41
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I wonder if you are drawing from only your own clinical experience, instead of taking into account the full possible range of behaviors, like many psychologists do.
    LOL, both! Clinical experience, the things I learned about them the last few years (including all range of behaviors). Oh, and diagnostic criteria. Everything available, really. And I don't have enough to diagnose you. Really, you have to actually see someone and observe them to diagnose them correctly. I don't like bragging, but trust me, I'm bad at a lot of things, but when it comes to diagnosing people, I'm GOOD!
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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    LOL, both! Clinical experience, the things I learned about them the last few years (including all range of behaviors). Oh, and diagnostic criteria. Everything available, really. And I don't have enough to diagnose you. Really, you have to actually see someone and observe them to diagnose them correctly. I don't like bragging, but trust me, I'm bad at a lot of things, but when it comes to diagnosing people, I'm GOOD!
    How do you know you're good? How does a 4rth year student gain that sort of confidence? My own professionally licensed counselors have never suggested Avoidant personality disorder, but have suggested Autism Spectrum, Depression, Bipolar (this is what they went with), and Attention Deficit.

    I posted links to diagnostic criteria and what I thought fit and didn't. I am fine with whatever if I understand the reasoning. But you seem to be saying I am more likely to be Avoidant than anything else. I am just trying to understand why.

    Here is the list again:
    http://psychcentral.com/disorders/av...rder-symptoms/
    "Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection"
    I now make my living teaching or tutoring others. Although, I had bad feelings about people not understanding me at work, I never feared their criticism. I welcomed it. The thing that bugs me more than being criticized is not understanding why I am being criticised, or believing their criticism is based on innacuracies.

    "Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked"
    Although I like being liked (who doesn't?), I don't care in most of my interactions with people. As long as they don't hinder what I want to do. They could like me, they could not. With people close to me, clarity in what people think about me is more important to me than their thoughts being completely favorable.

    "Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed"
    I have the opposite problem in intimate relationships--I share too much. This is something my parents keep telling me I do. They tell me to "keep things light" early on, because I tend to get too intense. Shame and ridicule don't feel nice. But a lot of times I don't even realize people are doing it. I don't fear it all that much.

    "Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations"
    Admittedly, recently, in one particular area, I have been preoccupied. But not something I am always pre-occupied with. Often, I get obsessed with certain situations, because I like to understand things. So when past situations lead to awkward moments, I ask enough questions till I am satisfied.

    "Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy"
    You could talk to people who know me. I am sometimes quiet. Sometimes not. It really depends on my mood. New interpersonal situations do confuse me, and I don't like being confused. But at 33, there are rather few completely new social situations for me (at least that I would be forced into).

    "Views themself as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others"
    OK. That one fits.

    "Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing"
    I do take take personal risks, but I do not like take risks that could cause me physical harm. Hi speeds, heights, etc. provoke real anxiety in me. A lot more than social situations do. I just get confused and frustrated with some social situations.
    About a month and a half ago, I decided (once again) to try to learn to dance. So I went out and picked a different dace to try every day of the week. Then repeated as many of those as I could for the following month. I told a very close friend I was falling in love with her despite knowing the risks involved with that. Embassment is not a strong motivator for me. I am more worried about her reputation, than mine. (And don't tell me Aspies don't care about other people. That just seems insane.)

    Statistically, the prevalences of Avoidant Personality Disorder are comparable to Autism Spectrum Disorder. So what are you basing the leaning towards Avoidant? I just want to know. What is your evidence?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  3. #43
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    • I did tiptoe a lot. I still do sometimes when I am stressed. My little brother did the same thing...as did my nephew. I thought that was normal, actually.
    Obviously all kids tiptoe sometimes (just like all kids repeat words or behaviors, or flap their hands, or get overstimulated- all things that, in unusual amounts, can be diagnostic for autism). But tiptoeing excessively or as a stress reliever can be a hallmark of the spectrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    • I don't think I had any sensory fears...but I believed I could see from a perspective in the corner of the room in addition to from my own eyes. An uncle of mine told me to keep that belief to myself.
    That is certainly unusual. It's hard to separate out how much of your unusual stuff might just come from being academically gifted, vs. what might be indicative of a spectrum issue, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    • I mixed and matched toys all the time. So did my brother. So did my nephew. I personally was fascinated by wheels and things that spin in general. I kinda still am. Something about rotation, and rotary motion is fascinating. I almost want to start another thread about it being reminded of it.
    My son used to sit and spin the wheels of his Matchbox cars for alarmingly long amounts of time. Anything that would spin would hold his attention. Also, reflective surfaces, something I forgot to mention before. Other toy parts that captivated him included lighting-up parts (he would repetitively trip whatever mechanism would make the light-up happen, just to watch it) and things that extended, like the ladder of a toy fire truck. He would make it go up and down for long periods of time, just studying it, figuring out how it worked. He was much more interested in how toys worked than in playing with them "as intended."

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    • Pretending came really easily to me. In fact, some teachers complained that I was too old and too smart to not know that something was make believe. Other kids complained that I took the games we were playing "too literally."
    This one's tricky. Pretending tends not to be something kids on the spectrum excel at, at least not early on. You got immersed moreso than other children, and didn't approach it as fiction? The kids I know on the spectrum had to be taught to pretend- we had a little dollhouse with miniature cats (one of his "restrictive interests" from an early age) that we had to teach him to pretend to feed, etc. He just wasn't interested in playing that way. He also stayed in the "parallel play" phase much longer than other children, who had moved on to cooperative play. When he started doing cooperative play he would often give himself and his playmates rigid roles. However, now he's very creative and stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    • I was delayed in learning to speak. But it is fairly common in my family. My nephew was quite significantly delayed. I don't think I was quite that far.
    These things tend to run in families- not everyone in the family will be diagnosed or "on the spectrum" but there might be a greater than average incidence of quirkiness, sensory issues, language delays, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    • I don't think my language was overly idosyncratic. Probably just some small quirks. Until very recently, I used to pronounce triple, "thriple", and drawer "draw-yer". What is funny is I passed these to my younger siblings, and younger cousin...I think I even corrected them to make them do it growing up. They made fun of me recently, and that is how I became aware of this idiosyncratic thing.

      As a child, I did remark often that I didn't like parts of speech that broke patterns...they're still humorous anecdotes among family members. In English, I said that it should be "oneteen, twoteen, threeteen, fourteen, fiveteen, sixteen, seventeen..." Why all the weird exceptions? There were a couple of other things in my native language. Also, there is a state in India called Kerala and a town called Cannoore and I asked if there is a Carolina and an Indiana, why is there no Cannoorana?"

      I remember being called into an office where the lady wanted me to talk about somethings. I remember realizing that she was testing to see if I said the "v" sound correctly (without saying that this is what she was doing), so I focused hard on saying them correctly. There were some other things also, that I remember figuring out, but I don't remember what they were. But I felt like I won some game at the end of that.

      Some people say I sound like a robot from time to time...but I have been coached to add intonation, so it happens less often now. Some people also still say that I am overly formal.
    When I say idiosyncratic, I mean more like the "threeteen, fourteen, fiveteen" things, not so much speech impediments or saying words funky. My boy treats language kind of... mathematically, if that makes sense. Like, he assumed the opposite of "messed it up" would be "messed it down." My theory is that he doesn't think in language but in pictures/spatial stuff, so he is constantly having to translate his natural visual thinking into the language the rest of us use in order to get his point across.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I should also add that I didn't have many motor skill issues growing up. In fact, I felt I had much better motor skills than most kids growing up. Even though, now, I feel I have more trouble than most adults in the fine motor skills, but am still rather good in many of the gross motor skills.
    This is one that would be unusual, but not unheard of, for a person on the spectrum.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    when it comes to diagnosing people, I'm GOOD!
    It's wonderful you are good at diagnosing people, so I was wondering, are you also good at typing people?

    @Comeback Girl

  5. #45
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It's wonderful you are good at diagnosing people, so I was wondering, are you also good at typing people?

    @Comeback Girl
    Haven't tried typing people a lot yet and I don't know much about typology yet, but with some practice I think I could get pretty good at it. I'm also good at predicting unexpected break-ups or other people's behavior once I know them a bit. I also accidentally predicted someone else's unplanned pregnancy last year, so some people who know me irl think I'm some sort of psychic now. I don't think I'm psychic, I'm just good at putting facts together.
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  6. #46
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    How do you know you're good? How does a 4rth year student gain that sort of confidence? My own professionally licensed counselors have never suggested Avoidant personality disorder, but have suggested Autism Spectrum, Depression, Bipolar (this is what they went with), and Attention Deficit.

    I posted links to diagnostic criteria and what I thought fit and didn't. I am fine with whatever if I understand the reasoning. But you seem to be saying I am more likely to be Avoidant than anything else. I am just trying to understand why.

    Here is the list again:
    http://psychcentral.com/disorders/av...rder-symptoms/
    "Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection"
    I now make my living teaching or tutoring others. Although, I had bad feelings about people not understanding me at work, I never feared their criticism. I welcomed it. The thing that bugs me more than being criticized is not understanding why I am being criticised, or believing their criticism is based on innacuracies.

    "Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked"
    Although I like being liked (who doesn't?), I don't care in most of my interactions with people. As long as they don't hinder what I want to do. They could like me, they could not. With people close to me, clarity in what people think about me is more important to me than their thoughts being completely favorable.

    "Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed"
    I have the opposite problem in intimate relationships--I share too much. This is something my parents keep telling me I do. They tell me to "keep things light" early on, because I tend to get too intense. Shame and ridicule don't feel nice. But a lot of times I don't even realize people are doing it. I don't fear it all that much.

    "Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations"
    Admittedly, recently, in one particular area, I have been preoccupied. But not something I am always pre-occupied with. Often, I get obsessed with certain situations, because I like to understand things. So when past situations lead to awkward moments, I ask enough questions till I am satisfied.

    "Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy"
    You could talk to people who know me. I am sometimes quiet. Sometimes not. It really depends on my mood. New interpersonal situations do confuse me, and I don't like being confused. But at 33, there are rather few completely new social situations for me (at least that I would be forced into).

    "Views themself as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others"
    OK. That one fits.

    "Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing"
    I do take take personal risks, but I do not like take risks that could cause me physical harm. Hi speeds, heights, etc. provoke real anxiety in me. A lot more than social situations do. I just get confused and frustrated with some social situations.
    About a month and a half ago, I decided (once again) to try to learn to dance. So I went out and picked a different dace to try every day of the week. Then repeated as many of those as I could for the following month. I told a very close friend I was falling in love with her despite knowing the risks involved with that. Embassment is not a strong motivator for me. I am more worried about her reputation, than mine. (And don't tell me Aspies don't care about other people. That just seems insane.)

    Statistically, the prevalences of Avoidant Personality Disorder are comparable to Autism Spectrum Disorder. So what are you basing the leaning towards Avoidant? I just want to know. What is your evidence?
    Sometimes we look at cases in our class and we're asked to diagnose them and unlike at least 90% of all students, I never made the wrong diagnosis. That's why I'm sure I'm good. Plus, I make a sport out of watching shows about people with mysterious diseases who couldn't get diagnosed for a very long time and when I see someone with complaints that could be psychological, I just NEED to diagnose them. Again, I've never been wrong. Not even when they were talking about kids with rare chromosome diseases, for example.

    Like I said, I don't know what you have, but if I had to pick something, it's Avoidant Personality Disorder. I'm not sure you have it, but it suits what you write the most. People with Avoidant Personality Disorder BELIEVE they have no people skills and therefore become overly self-conscious of their behavior. That's what I saw in the things you wrote: you were convinced you had no people skills and you seemed overly self-conscious of every detail of your interpersonal behavior. Anxiety in social situations, until you're certain you perform well in them: another thing that both applies to you and AvPD. You can look at the separate details you listed and look at them in every way you want, but from what I see the mechanism that drives you is the same mechanism that drives AvPD.

    The thing is I CAN'T diagnose you from just looking at the things you wrote. I can't see if you indeed lack interpersonal skills or if it's all just in your head. I can't see if you indeed lack empathy or if you're just overestimating it. I can't see if your body language matches the body language that's typical for people with autism. I can't see the things I need to see to draw the conclusion that you have Asperger's. The things I can see, are insecurity, feelings of being socially inadequate, anxiety and extreme self-consciousness. That led me to the idea that if I had to diagnose you, it would be AvPD or something related to social anxiety. I just put all the information I had together.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    maybe you're like me have traits of it but not on the spectrum.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Haven't tried typing people a lot yet and I don't know much about typology yet, but with some practice I think I could get pretty good at it.
    Do you think mbti is based on fact or fantasy?

    If mbti is based on fact, why aren't the facts gathered and interpreted by a qualified pychometrician as in any valid and reliable personality test?

    And if mbti is based on fantasy, we can expect every fantasist to be good at typing.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    My son used to sit and spin the wheels of his Matchbox cars for alarmingly long amounts of time. Anything that would spin would hold his attention. Also, reflective surfaces, something I forgot to mention before. Other toy parts that captivated him included lighting-up parts (he would repetitively trip whatever mechanism would make the light-up happen, just to watch it) and things that extended, like the ladder of a toy fire truck. He would make it go up and down for long periods of time, just studying it, figuring out how it worked. He was much more interested in how toys worked than in playing with them "as intended."
    I kinda get this. There is something deeply meaningful about repetitive things. I may start a thread about it, but I am having trouble putting these ideas into words right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This one's tricky. Pretending tends not to be something kids on the spectrum excel at, at least not early on. You got immersed moreso than other children, and didn't approach it as fiction? The kids I know on the spectrum had to be taught to pretend- we had a little dollhouse with miniature cats (one of his "restrictive interests" from an early age) that we had to teach him to pretend to feed, etc. He just wasn't interested in playing that way. He also stayed in the "parallel play" phase much longer than other children, who had moved on to cooperative play. When he started doing cooperative play he would often give himself and his playmates rigid roles. However, now he's very creative and stuff.
    This is the thing that has me most convinced that I am not an Aspie. I have always had a vivid fantasy life, and my play would not have been well characterized as "parallel". Although I was quite content to play by myself, I was very good at getting other kids to join in my play. I was kind of an instigator for these things--making up games, stories, and adventures that the other kids (most frequently my younger siblings and cousins) wanted to join in on.

    Even in undergrad, I convinced people who were ostensibly adults into joining in many childish activities.

    On a whim, I got a group of people to track down the point of origin of a search light we saw. A couple hours later, we were crossing highways and such in the pursuit of the origin of the search light. We finally turned back, short of our goal, because one friend got the inside of his shoe ridiculously muddy and wouldn't stop complaining about it.

    A roommate and I once tried to see if we could make it from one building in the quad to another on the opposite corner without ever going outside. We managed, and wanted to see how far we could go beyond that. When either a young professor or post-doc spotted us, he was rather suspicious and I thought we were in trouble (perhaps we had entered restricted areas?), but when we explained what we were doing, he actually made some suggestions for how we could get to the next building.

    Also, I once told my roommate that I was claiming all the land that I encircled that he had not himself encircled and this lead to a foot race around campus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    When I say idiosyncratic, I mean more like the "threeteen, fourteen, fiveteen" things, not so much speech impediments or saying words funky. My boy treats language kind of... mathematically, if that makes sense. Like, he assumed the opposite of "messed it up" would be "messed it down." My theory is that he doesn't think in language but in pictures/spatial stuff, so he is constantly having to translate his natural visual thinking into the language the rest of us use in order to get his point across.
    Yeah, I tend to find verbal thinking extremely cumbersome and limiting for most applications. I even think it is over-emphasized in schools. But I know verbal thinking has its uses, especially in communication. It's inefficiency/redundancy is perhaps its strength in this domain, though it's vagueness and arbitrariness largely neutralize this, in my opinion. As much as I would like the world-at-large to embrace more visual and mathematical forms of communication, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Sometimes we look at cases in our class and we're asked to diagnose them and unlike at least 90% of all students, I never made the wrong diagnosis. That's why I'm sure I'm good. Plus, I make a sport out of watching shows about people with mysterious diseases who couldn't get diagnosed for a very long time and when I see someone with complaints that could be psychological, I just NEED to diagnose them. Again, I've never been wrong. Not even when they were talking about kids with rare chromosome diseases, for example.
    Believe it or not, my confidence in your abilities actually dropped with this statement. The world is full of people who once had a lucky streak and then consider it a "talent". Natural "talent" gets people as far as they can spit.

    I would be fine with your diagnosis, if you gave me convincing reasons ("trust me, I'm good" is the opposite of convincing).

    If someone on the internet told me "I am really good at flipping coins and making them land on heads", I would be quite skeptical. If she then related a story about how she did it 10 times in a row once, I would become even more skeptical. If she, on the other hand, explained some of her techniques, and I tried them and they worked, I would become less skeptical. Then I know her skill has a chance to be real, it has come from deliberate practice (not some magical "talent"), some of which she has let me in on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Like I said, I don't know what you have, but if I had to pick something, it's Avoidant Personality Disorder. I'm not sure you have it, but it suits what you write the most. People with Avoidant Personality Disorder BELIEVE they have no people skills and therefore become overly self-conscious of their behavior. That's what I saw in the things you wrote: you were convinced you had no people skills and you seemed overly self-conscious of every detail of your interpersonal behavior. Anxiety in social situations, until you're certain you perform well in them: another thing that both applies to you and AvPD. You can look at the separate details you listed and look at them in every way you want, but from what I see the mechanism that drives you is the same mechanism that drives AvPD.
    I am pretty sure I never stated I have "no people skills". Nor do I believe this to be a fair characterization of those on the Autism Spectrum. In fact, I am rather sure I gave examples of people skills that I have learned.

    Also, I still don't teach all that well, but I am not anxious about the act of teaching. I can be anxious about understanding the material I need to teach. But, at this point, if I knew the subject matter, and were given the time to prepare the lessons, I would be willing to do it.

    If I seemed reluctant to accept others' reasons for why I am not an Aspie, it was because the reasons given matched the very same stereotypes and myths that Aspies themselves were denouncing in their videos and articles (That all those within the Autism Spectrum are obviously strange, asexual, second cousins of psychopaths who don't care about others). At this point, I am pretty sure that even if I have some of the traits, pursuing an Asperger's diagnosis would not be helpful. The stigma is strong, I've learned to cope with a lot of the problems that may be associated, and I have some traits in my development that are quite atypical of those on the Autism Spectrum.

    I have since looked through some other lists of diagnostic criteria, and on some lists I match better for Avoidant Personality Disorder. But at most, I met half of the things listed. If there were a "counterphobic" version of Avoidant, I think it may be a good match. There was some information I found about "Counterphobic/Analytical Avoidant Personalities" (Type II Avoidant). I'll look more into that.

    I am grateful you pointed me in a direction I would not have considered. But, frankly, the repeated statements of "Trust me, I'm good," or "If forced to choose, I would choose Avoidant", without adequate explanation was frustrating.

    Even if you do have a "talent" for diagnosis, I think people like me will be frustrated with the lack of reasons given for such diagnoses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    The thing is I CAN'T diagnose you from just looking at the things you wrote. I can't see if you indeed lack interpersonal skills or if it's all just in your head. I can't see if you indeed lack empathy or if you're just overestimating it. I can't see if your body language matches the body language that's typical for people with autism. I can't see the things I need to see to draw the conclusion that you have Asperger's. The things I can see, are insecurity, feelings of being socially inadequate, anxiety and extreme self-consciousness. That led me to the idea that if I had to diagnose you, it would be AvPD or something related to social anxiety. I just put all the information I had together.
    Well, I said I could do tiny chat. But I am not posting videos where you can see my face.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    maybe you're like me have traits of it but not on the spectrum.
    Yeah. That's what I am thinking right now.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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