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  1. #51
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I look at it like I look at cognitive functions - you can emulate a function that's outside of your preference range and yield the same outer-consequences, but it's still not the same function it and won't necessarily be bound to an ingrained psychological schema. Therefore, it won't be as reliable, and it will drain you unless you practice it for years on end.

    However, I also think empathy isn't necessarily a process in which one feels for another's emotional state. Several misconceptions tend to float around it because peoples' very response to the word tends to be visceral and clouded.

    Simply understanding another individuals condition is, in my opinion, sufficient enough to be benevolent towards them. If you're not empathetic, you won't be bound to your own impression of an emotional state to the degree that you feel the urge to mend it. That, in itself, is a personal gain, whether you're finding comfort in your feelings about another regardless of their actual condition, or whether you're unintentionally imposing how they "ought" to feel in a given situation.
    I agree with this, especially the highlighted. I find keeping an emotional distance from trouble situations can actually make it possible to help more effectively. What some people call cognitive empathy suffices for this - understanding that general nature of someone's difficulty without actually internalizing it emotionally.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #52
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    This is super interesting, were there any more tests and or results within this study?.. If so...new thread maybe?


    Edit: For this thread.... Can empathy be lost/unlearned?... I do believe it can be learned infact I think most of us do learn it, slowly as we grow... some may be inherent but it's mostly learnt imo. There is debate regarding when is the point of no return...age-wise to be taught empathy if the individual has been deprived/neglected in ways
    The only time that you can't learn something new is when you don't want to or when you are mentally incapable...

    So no there's not an "age"

    There is a time that someone may get to the point in which they have alzheimer's....

    Then may not be the best time to teach that person...

    Otherwise...why would we NOT learn stuff?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member human101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    The only time that you can't learn something new is when you don't want to or when you are mentally incapable...

    So no there's not an "age"

    There is a time that someone may get to the point in which they have alzheimer's....

    Then may not be the best time to teach that person...

    Otherwise...why would we NOT learn stuff?
    Correct

  4. #54
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    why would we NOT learn stuff?
    The fact is there are two types of learning.

    There is intuitive learning and counter-intuitive learning.

    Intuitive learning is natural, and counter-intuitive learning is unnatural.

    For instance, learning to speak our native language at home is intuitive and natural, but learning to read and write is counter-intuitive and unnatural, and we have to be compelled to go to a special institution with specially trained staff to counter-intuitively and unnaturally learn to read and write.

    In the same way we learn naturally, intuitively to sympathise, but we learn to empathise counter-intuitively, unnaturally in professional institutions with specially trained staff.

  5. #55
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Otherwise...why would we NOT learn stuff?
    Because we prefer to spend our time and energy learning OTHER stuff. The world is full of knowledge and skills, far too much for any one person to learn even a small fraction. We must therefore prioritize our efforts. When it looks like someone doesn't want to learn, often they just don't want to learn the specific thing someone else is focusing on.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #56
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Is this really empathy though? When a person ‘feels empathy’ essentially as means to get something and they can turn it off the moment it isn’t useful, wtf is that? I know it happens- I’ve dealt with it in people- and it’s convincing, but I have a hard time agreeing that it’s really empathy. If concern for another person’s feelings is entirely about the use value and not for the sake of itself, it’s a very empty form of merely accurately reading someone else’s feelings.
    How did you jump from turning something off to using it as a means to an end?

    It looks exactly like empathy, but there’s still some weird disconnect if it can be turned off like a switch.
    "Some weird disconnect?" If you can turn anger off, does it stop being anger? What about sadness or anxiety? Your reasoning doesn't make sense to me.

  7. #57
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Because we prefer to spend our time and energy learning OTHER stuff. The world is full of knowledge and skills, far too much for any one person to learn even a small fraction. We must therefore prioritize our efforts. When it looks like someone doesn't want to learn, often they just don't want to learn the specific thing someone else is focusing on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The fact is there are two types of learning.

    There is intuitive learning and counter-intuitive learning.

    Intuitive learning is natural, and counter-intuitive learning is unnatural.

    For instance, learning to speak our native language at home is intuitive and natural, but learning to read and write is counter-intuitive and unnatural, and we have to be compelled to go to a special institution with specially trained staff to counter-intuitively and unnaturally learn to read and write.

    In the same way we learn naturally, intuitively to sympathise, but we learn to empathise counter-intuitively, unnaturally in professional institutions with specially trained staff.
    LOL yes to you both! ha ha

    I'm just ruthless when it comes to learning...

    I believe people should want to learn. And they should learn about whatever they can.

    Also ... it took me a while to learn to prioritize that connection is like #1...

    If I can do it they can do it.

    LMAO...which in it's self is contradicting me having any empathy or compassion..

    SEE? I have to actively try to empathize with people...

    I don't empathize with people who don't want to learn how to empathize...LMAO
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  8. #58
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I think empathy has to be felt. Sure, you can emulate 'empathy', like if you have to work in customer service and have to pretend to care about people for your job, but that is not real empathy.

    I think everyone has a natural tendency to empathize with other people. The question is simply how big your circle of 'us' is. For some people it's only the close circle -- family, friends. For others it may be the whole world, and might even extend to other species.

    So, to answer the question in the OP: no, I don't think empathy can be consciously learned. You develop empathy through receiving love from other people and bonding.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  9. #59
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    How did you jump from turning something off to using it as a means to an end?
    Because if psychopaths aren’t capable of guilt or remorse, then why would they ‘switch on’ empathy for any other reason than personal gain?

    I just looked up and read about the study. It looks like they can turn it on simply by being asked to turn it on. The bizarre disconnect though is that there’s no conscience tying them to the empathy when that empathy doesn’t feel good. Most people can’t just turn it off. I can imagine instances where empathy shuts off because more information becomes available and changes the circumstances- but most people can’t simply shut empathy off at will. (…Right?)

    What I read suggested they might be able to use these findings to figure out how to help psychopaths from causing harm. It’ll be interesting to see if they can actually do that.

    I get how what they’re seeing in the results is being called ‘empathy’, per se- but it’s just weird because it isn’t attached to a conscience. It may light up the same parts of the brain, but I'm not sure I'm willing to call it empathy in the most commonly used sense of the word.
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  10. #60
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I think empathy has to be felt. Sure, you can emulate 'empathy', like if you have to work in customer service and have to pretend to care about people for your job, but that is not real empathy.

    I think everyone has a natural tendency to empathize with other people. The question is simply how big your circle of 'us' is. For some people it's only the close circle -- family, friends. For others it may be the whole world, and might even extend to other species.

    So, to answer the question in the OP: no, I don't think empathy can be consciously learned. You develop empathy through receiving love from other people and bonding.
    Hmm... you may be right.

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