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  1. #21
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    You have the definitions mixed up.
    I have had this argument a hundred times and I am quite sure of my ground.

    Sympathy comes from the Ancient Greek, 'sumpatheia', and empthy comes from the Ancient Greek, 'empatheia'.

    And whether you like it or not, empathy means knowing with another feels and without feeling it oneself. And empathy is uniquely helpful in the helping professions.

    Unfortunately we live in a narcissistic age where we won't even acknowledge that we can't empathise until we are taught, just as we can't read and write until we are taught.

    And as well as living in a narcissistic age we live in the age of ignorance of even the difference between the words, 'sympathy' and 'empathy'.

    In popular culture 'sympathy' and 'empathy' mean the same, Ancient Greek not withstanding.

  2. #22
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I have had this argument a hundred times and I am quite sure of my ground.

    Sympathy comes from the Ancient Greek, 'sumpatheia', and empthy comes from the Ancient Greek, 'empatheia'.

    And whether you like it or not, empathy means knowing with another feels and without feeling it oneself. And empathy is uniquely helpful in the helping professions.

    Unfortunately we live in a narcissistic age where we won't even acknowledge that we can't empathise until we are taught, just as we can't read and write until we are taught.

    And as well as living in a narcissistic age we live in the age of ignorance of even the difference between the words, 'sympathy' and 'empathy'.

    In popular culture 'sympathy' and 'empathy' mean the same, Ancient Greek not withstanding.
    Dictionary.com

    Both empathy and sympathy are feelings concerning other people. Sympathy is literally 'feeling with' - compassion for or commiseration with another person. Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person. Sympathy derives from Latin and Greek words meaning 'having a fellow feeling'. The term empathy originated in psychology (translation of a German term, c. 1903) and has now come to mean the ability to imagine or project oneself into another person's position and experience all the sensations involved in that position. You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't. Examples: We felt sympathy for the team members who tried hard but were not appreciated. / We felt empathy for children with asthma because their parents won't remove pets from the household.

  3. #23
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Dictionary.com
    And wikipedia:


    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Sympathy is a feeling and concern. Or it can be the perception, understanding, and reaction to the distress or need of another human being.[1] This empathic concern is driven by a switch in viewpoint, from a personal perspective to the perspective of another group or individual who is in need. Empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably. Sympathy is a feeling, but the two terms have distinct origins and meanings.[2] Empathy refers to the understanding and sharing of a specific emotional state with another person. Sympathy does not require the sharing of the same emotional state. Instead, sympathy is a concern for the well-being of another. Although sympathy may begin with empathizing with the same emotion another person is feeling, sympathy can be extended to other emotional states.
    No wonder Mole/Victor has had to have the argument 100 times. (Not that some people don't define them the other way around, but in the end, common usage wins.)

  4. #24
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Tell that to Frederick Douglass
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    ...In general the self-teaching process may not be as efficient as having a trained guide and teacher, but for certain minds and personalities it can even be more efficient than with the wrong mentor.
    ...
    Douglass, for the sake of accuracy, was taught the alphabet by his slave-owners wife (who was then instructed by her husband to stop), and by his account learned bits and pieces by trading bread with the local young white street urchins - whom you can guess weren't very great teachers, but he managed to cobble this together into something effective to work with.



    That said there is something to be said about having negative emotional influences in your life perverting your concepts of reality, and while I question if there are 'true' emotional answers in some matters - some certainly seem more reflective of reality than others.

    I think the quality of what is self-taught is limited by your own perceptions, so in the emotional realm there is value in consulting outside sources - even if they aren't very good sources. A good source would be better though, but in any case I wouldn't unquestionably absorb an idea from any of them.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Some people do teach themselves to read and write.
    My God, the printing press was invented in 1440 giving rise to the dream of univeral literacy. But it was only when the State made education free, secular and compulsory that prosperous States attained universal literacy.

    Everyone in prosperous States is compelled to go to school by Law.

    We are compelled by Law to go to school because reading and writing does not come naturally to almost everyone.

    And gosh, do need to point out to you that the number of people who teach themselve to read and write is insignificant.

    I can only think you brought up an insignificant example for the sake of arguing. And I am not interested in arguing for its own sake because it is neurotic.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    No wonder Mole/Victor has had to have the argument 100 times. (Not that some people don't define them the other way around, but in the end, common usage wins.)
    This is true, in English common usage wins.

    This is unfortunate because common usage impoverishes us.

    Popular culture is itself impoverished, and so common usage in popular culture reduces us to the lowest common denominator.

    We live in the Age of the Hollow men, low cheap and ugly, full of self esteem, with no sense of irony.

  7. #27
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I can do it if I care enough to do it.

    Sometimes, it almost requires a queer emotional reverse-engineering (and probably Ne), but I'm certainly capable of it.

    Other times, a conscious effort to show respect is enough.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes.

    I can do it if I care enough to do it. It takes conscious effort, but I'm certainly capable of it.
    And I'll bet you think you can administer and interpret a personaiity test for yourself, your family, your friends and your celebrities, all without even a hint of a qualification in Psychometrics, just like Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers.

  9. #29
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    And I'll bet you think you can administer and interpret a personaiity test for yourself, your family, your friends and your celebrities, all without even a hint of a qualification in Psychometrics, just like Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers.
    I don't have the energy for gratifying your desire to pick a fight right now. Go feel self-righteous at someone else.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I don't have the energy for gratifying your desire to pick a fight right now. Go feel self-righteous at someone else.
    You see how well you empathise with me - you know I am feeling self-righteous without feeling self-righteous yourself.

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