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View Poll Results: Would you choose to be a psychopath? l

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  1. #61
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Edward Bernays and the Emotional Control of the American Masses

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Of the two, emotion is more easily ignored.

    Do we really have more humiliation of the vulnerable now than in past ages? Compared with just a few centuries ago, significantly fewer people are enslaved, women have more freedom, the world has fewer autocracies, literacy is much more widespread, etc. This doesn't excuse the oppression that remains, but indicates the practice is decreasing, not increasing.
    As control by physical violence decreases, so the need for non-physical control increases.

    And non-physical control takes the form of emotional control.

    The perfect example of this is Edward Bernays, named by Life Magazine of one the most 100 influential Americans of the 20th Century.

    Edward Bernays is the father of American Public Relations and wrote the manual called, "Propaganda".

    And as physical control decreased in America, Edward Bernays taught emotional control of the masses to the leading companies of America as well as the military.

  2. #62
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    As control by physical violence decreases, so the need for non-physical control increases.
    Non-physical control has always been a significant part of oppression. Religion has often been used to achieve this control, through promises and threats regarding the afterlife. The class systems present in many places also served to reinforce a mindset of inferiority among the majority of the population. Literacy and education are effective antidotes against both modern and historical methods of manipulation and coercion.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Literacy and education are effective antidotes against both modern and historical methods of manipulation and coercion.
    Edward Bernays would love you. For he knew that literacy and education were no antidote the Public Relations and Propaganda he bequethed to American Companies and the Military.

    Edward Bernays knew that literacy and education created the conscious, literate individual, whereas he appealed directly and successfully to the American unconscious.

    Edward Bernays was one of the most influential Americans of the 20th Century. So have you ever wondered why you were never taught about Edward Bernays at school?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Edward Bernays
    Love the guy, mostly because I've learned a lot about mind and manipulation from him and Naom Chomsky.

    You would probably learn about him by taking a crash course in Communications, or some similar degree. Took one course that talked about mass media and how it shaped peoples views... never went through Edward Bernays, though.

    Propaganda, Advertisement, and Public Relations (and similar words) are all the same to me. When I say they are all the same to me, I really mean they are all the same to me.

    A lot of these things we aren't aware of because it has become a way of life. And often times, these things run in the background.

    Even the most educated mind can be unaware of being manipulated by such a difference in word usage.

    He really is the most influential person that not many people have known about of the 20th century.

  5. #65
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this thread, the book that inspired it, and many of the claims made about how psychopaths make better surgeons, lawyers, CEOs, etc. At least there are many claims that psychopaths are more highly represented in these professions. I have personally made off-the-cuff remarks about how I've noticed people in these professions that appear to be psychopathic.

    But here's the question, how is it verified that the tough-minded, remorseless, even mean-spirited people we see in these professions are actually psychopaths? If actual psychopathy is related to differences in brain structure then has there been research that has performed brain scans on enough individuals to have a statistically meaningful population of psychopath vs. non-psychopaths surgeons to measure their success in the operating room? Or is it one of those things that just seems like it's true? Is this author approaching psychopathy in a similar way that medicine approaches something like fibromyalgia? I go to the doctor and tell them that my body hurts most of the time, they say, "Oh, probably fibromyalgia, here are some pills that lessen nerve sensitivity". It's not scientific. If psychopathy is being approached in this way, then it is just expanding the definition to mean anyone who vaguely resembles the external qualities we have associated with psychopathy.

    In the end what I read is that no duh tough-mindedness, courage, and freedom from negative emotional baggage is helpful in high pressure jobs. That is a completely different assumption from saying that psychopaths make better heart surgeons. It's not clear to me how the scientific method can be applied in valid manner to this question.

    I think the author wants to sell books and this will not be a meaningful contribution to psychology in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The romanticising of the psychopath by contemporary society is not simply because many of the overlords are psychopaths or behave that way but because the emotional turmoil of many in the present day makes the apparent lack of emotions, in particular guilt, enviable.

    Since the society generates the social character and the social character reflects what society needs I would suspect there will be more of this kind of thing.

    The challenge is instead not to be or not to be a psychopath but to be or not to be a human being and to challenge the structures which have perrenially obstructed and inhibited that.
    I think you hit the nail on the head.

    What overcomes "psychopathy" is a strong sense of community generated from empathy. When people unite in care and concern for each other they are much stronger than a single selfish individual with an attachment disorder. Also, courage can often overcome "fearlessness". Courage has had to instill internal systems to process fear, so it can adapt to many circumstances. It also is based on powerful motivations.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #66
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Personally I think it's a little overplayed to grab your attention, but that's something.

    Scientific American has a bunch of podcasts too, if you want to listen, including an interview with the actor from Dexter and the author of the above I believe.
    Mental toughness and fearlessness often go hand in hand. Of course, to many of us lesser mortals, fearlessness may seem quite foreign. But Leslie explains the rationale behind this state—and how he maintains it. “The thing about fear, or the way I understand fear, I suppose—because, to be honest, I don't think I've ever really felt it—is that most of the time it's completely unwarranted anyway. What is it they say? Ninety-nine percent of the things people worry about never happen. So what's the point?

    “I think the problem is that people spend so much time worrying about what might happen, what might go wrong, that they completely lose sight of the present. They completely overlook the fact that, actually, right now, everything's perfectly fine.

    “So the trick, whenever possible, I propose, is to stop your brain from running on ahead of you.”

    Leslie's pragmatic endorsement of the principles and practices of what might otherwise be described as mindfulness is typical of the psychopath. A psychopath's rapacious proclivity to live in the moment, to “give tomorrow the slip and take today on a joyride” (as Larry, rather whimsically, puts it), is well documented—and at times can be stupendously beneficial. In fact, anchoring your thoughts unswervingly in the present is a discipline that psychopathy and spiritual enlightenment have in common. Clinical psychologist Mark Williams of the University of Oxford, for example, incorporates this principle of centering in his mindfulness-based cognitive-behavior therapy program for sufferers of anxiety and depression.
    I find this quote actually a bit annoying. It sounds like someone who has had an easy enough life to look around and wonder what is everyone so worried about? While it is true that there are personality types that internalize all the hyped fears they see in the media and learn hyper-worried behaviors from friends and relatives, that is something entirely different from the true nature of courage and fear. I can see that "fearlessness" is simply acknowledging when you are safe and being free from negative emotional baggage. FWIW, many types of attachment disorders are hyper-sensitive to self. Even Saddam Hussein was a hypochondriac who would calm his fears by watching videos of executions he had ordered.

    A person doesn't get to be an expert on fearlessness and courage if they have not ever looked their own mortality square in the eyes, or been physically violated and made to feel completely helpless in excruciating pain. It is beyond annoying when people think fearlessness is the same thing as having an easy and safe life.

    Edit: So here's a question, does Saddam qualify as a psychopath? He wasn't fearless in the least. Tough-minded towards others, but not self.
    How about George Bush who made many tough-minded decisions and yet "Former US president says rapper calling him a racist during a Hurricane Katrina telethon in 2005 was an 'all-time low'", and his worst moment in his presidency. That is quite hyper-sensitive towards self. It would be interesting to submit the name of any of these supposed psychopaths and see how free from hypersensitivity towards self they actually are. I'd be curious to see how many actually are. That part is news to me.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #67
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Also, is this author using new definitions for psychopathy? Because even the most cursory review of the actual condition are in clear contradictions to his premise:
    Quote Originally Posted by wiki=
    Several studies have found that psychopaths have difficulty identifying certain facial expressions. This has been linked to the amygdala in patients with brain damage, but a recent meta-analysis suggested the deficits are not always found in psychopathy, and tend to show more on tasks requiring verbal processing (e.g. a verbal response to a questioner) at the same time as visual processing.[79]
    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Anxiety disorders often co-occur with ASPD, and contrary to assumptions psychopathy can sometimes be marked by anxiety; however, this appears to be due to the antisocial aspect (factor 2 of the PCL), and anxiety may be inversely associated with the interpersonal-emotional traits (Factor I of the PCL-R).[citation needed]
    Depression appears to be inversely associated with psychopathy. There is little evidence for a link between psychopathy and schizophrenia.[59]
    Overall, it looks like there are a number of conflicting assumptions about psychopathy in the literature and between this author's assumptions and the formal definitions of psychopathy.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #68
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head.

    What overcomes "psychopathy" is a strong sense of community generated from empathy. When people unite in care and concern for each other they are much stronger than a single selfish individual with an attachment disorder. Also, courage can often overcome "fearlessness". Courage has had to instill internal systems to process fear, so it can adapt to many circumstances. It also is based on powerful motivations.
    I think the amount of true psychopaths is a lot less than is commonly supposed, there's just lots and lots of people who seek to emulate that kind of being unfortunately and when they do its as good as the real thing in terms of its consequences, although realistically anyone identifying with and wishing to be like that is a odd thing to me, its like saying "God, I wish I was autistic" or "I wish I had a brain injury".

    The challenge isnt to be a beast, the challenge is to be a man or woman and to put the beast down.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think the amount of true psychopaths is a lot less than is commonly supposed, there's just lots and lots of people who seek to emulate that kind of being unfortunately and when they do its as good as the real thing in terms of its consequences, although realistically anyone identifying with and wishing to be like that is a odd thing to me, its like saying "God, I wish I was autistic" or "I wish I had a brain injury".

    The challenge isnt to be a beast, the challenge is to be a man or woman and to put the beast down.
    I agree. You don't have to be a sociopath or a psychopath to be a rotten, underhanded, selfish, and self-serving human being.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapLawyer View Post
    I agree. You don't have to be a sociopath or a psychopath to be a rotten, underhanded, selfish, and self-serving human being.
    Yup, you just need to follow Ayn Rand's teaching to the letter.

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