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Socionics: Irrational vs Rational music

Azure Flame

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So I read on socionics.com that irrationals tend to have "softer" emotions, while rationals tend to have "sharper" emotions.

Picking out some intense music, I choose one of my LII 5w4 (MBTI INTP) brother's favorite songs, and compared it to my own SLE 8w7 (MBTI I/ESTP) favorite song. The difference is that of being stabbed with a hot knife (rational) versus entering a room that is sweltering. The rational intensity is more point focussed, while the Irrational intensity is more spread out. Let me know if you can hear what I hear.

LII 5w4 (Rational type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG0q-MhzQ7I

SLE 8w7 (Irrational Type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKVUDr1goPc

Essentially, the former song seems to only affect 1 point in my body, while the second song feels seems to affect my entire body.

Thoughts?
 

Evo

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So I read on socionics.com that irrationals tend to have "softer" emotions, while rationals tend to have "sharper" emotions.

Picking out some intense music, I choose one of my LII 5w4 (MBTI INTP) brother's favorite songs, and compared it to my own SLE 8w7 (MBTI I/ESTP) favorite song. The difference is that of being stabbed with a hot knife (rational) versus entering a room that is sweltering. The rational intensity is more point focussed, while the Irrational intensity is more spread out. Let me know if you can hear what I hear.

LII 5w4 (Rational type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG0q-MhzQ7I

SLE 8w7 (Irrational Type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKVUDr1goPc

Essentially, the former song seems to only affect 1 point in my body, while the second song feels seems to affect my entire body.

Thoughts?

This is too right brained for the likes of me. lol I'm not sure what you're hearing, but the first song is not for a judger. There's no beginning, middle, or end. There's no climax, there's no point. Too many unresolved notes. There's clashing notes (Kind of like the noise you hear when you're playing the game New Vegas and the game tells you there's an enemy just by the disturbing music in the background) I kept waiting for something to happen and nothing did. And the notes just keep trying to bring about anticipation of some sort with no resolution.

I don't like the first song all it just gets louder. I'm ok with the second song. It moves, takes you somewhere and doesn't fuck with you.


Edit: I just got to the part with the words. This song is well worth the wait for the words. awesome
 

Azure Flame

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hmm, I didn't consider that certain songs wouldn't be percieved in the same way by others. I have a lot of ISFP examples too, such as this, it has a conventional song layout:

 

Evo

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hmm, I didn't consider that certain songs wouldn't be percieved in the same way by others. I have a lot of ISFP examples too, such as this, it has a conventional song layout:


Hmm. Yea this one doesn't seem to affect my whole body either. This is def. for ISFP's though.

Can you define sharper emotions better? Does that mean we feel them more deeply?

Music that affects my whole body is definitely sad music. I dunno about the word sharp. I think I like more raw music. Meaning the singer sounds like they're on the verge of tears like this guy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufEejvMEP64

The background is happy sounding until you listen the voice/words

Also this is the best song to describe my inner world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssdgFoHLwnk

This song is my all time favorite. ^

Or even this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsxfvwuCqxo

I'm happy when a song makes me cry. lmao weird I know.

The current theme other than sadness is that all these guys voices sound like they're about to choke up while singing. That to me is introverted feeling. And it's the only language I understand for emotions.
 
W

WALMART

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Christian Woman is ISFP music? Interesting. Song does things for me, every last nuance.
 

Such Irony

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So I read on socionics.com that irrationals tend to have "softer" emotions, while rationals tend to have "sharper" emotions.

Picking out some intense music, I choose one of my LII 5w4 (MBTI INTP) brother's favorite songs, and compared it to my own SLE 8w7 (MBTI I/ESTP) favorite song. The difference is that of being stabbed with a hot knife (rational) versus entering a room that is sweltering. The rational intensity is more point focussed, while the Irrational intensity is more spread out. Let me know if you can hear what I hear.

LII 5w4 (Rational type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG0q-MhzQ7I

SLE 8w7 (Irrational Type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKVUDr1goPc

Essentially, the former song seems to only affect 1 point in my body, while the second song feels seems to affect my entire body.

Thoughts?

The first song I thought was boring and repetitive sounding. The second song I liked. I self-type as LII, a rational type but I'm kinda on the rational-irrational border anyway.

I'm skeptical of there being much type correlation with music preference.
 

sulfit

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It doesn't work. EIIs often have very soft music tastes and emotions, despite being rational type.

I've been told by several socionists that socionics.com is a bad source of info. Half the articles there sound ill conceived and bizarre.
 

Azure Flame

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It doesn't work. EIIs often have very soft music tastes and emotions, despite being rational type.

I've been told by several socionists that socionics.com is a bad source of info. Half the articles there sound ill conceived and bizarre.

Hmm... you're probably right about socionics.com. I was skeptical, but the "sharp emotions" really struck a nerve. Most of the women I've dated who I felt had "dark" emotions were rationals, and all too often have they told me that I"m "too innocent."

I think there's something to the hard/sharp thing. It doesn't seem to be an instinctual variant issue as far as I can tell, and it doesn't explain why. these "sharp" emotions are ones I used to describe as "dark" or "intense." I think I have my wording off.

EII's do have very "dark" emotions to me personally. Some of them are in music videos for sigur ros. They seem "dark" to me in the sense that they are painfully gloomy and dismal, in a depressing limbo kinda way. What one may find "hopeful and uplifting" in this song, I find to be horribly depressing. Its like, if you took a really depressed person, and caught them on a day where they were slightly less depressed than before... you have this song. lmao. ENFp's don't seem to generate these same emotions in me that EII's do.

 

sulfit

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if anyone doesn't know the difference between Socionics rational and irrational types it's described here: http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

Hmm... you're probably right about socionics.com. I was skeptical, but the "sharp emotions" really struck a nerve. Most of the women I've dated who I felt had "dark" emotions were rationals, and all too often have they told me that I"m "too innocent."

I think there's something to the hard/sharp thing. It doesn't seem to be an instinctual variant issue as far as I can tell, and it doesn't explain why. these "sharp" emotions are ones I used to describe as "dark" or "intense." I think I have my wording off.

EII's do have very "dark" emotions to me personally. Some of them are in music videos for sigur ros. They seem "dark" to me in the sense that they are painfully gloomy and dismal, in a depressing limbo kinda way. What one may find "hopeful and uplifting" in this song, I find to be horribly depressing. Its like, if you took a really depressed person, and caught them on a day where they were slightly less depressed than before... you have this song. lmao. ENFp's don't seem to generate these same emotions in me that EII's do.
"It doesn't seem to be an instinctual variant issue as far as I can tell" - That's not the case. These kind of sharp emotions can be due to both instinct variants and enneagram emotional reactive triad which is 4, 6, and 8.

I've dug up this article from 16types. Take a look what it's saying, that sx/sp and sx/so are prone to having "sharp" emotions:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/242-Instinct-scrapheap

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.

sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.
 
Last edited:

Azure Flame

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"It doesn't seem to be an instinctual variant issue as far as I can tell" - That's not the case. These kind of sharp emotions can be due to both instinct variants and enneagram emotional reactive triad which is 4, 6, and 8.

I've dug up this article from 16types. Take a look what it's saying, that sx/sp and sx/so are prone to having "sharp" emotions:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/242-Instinct-scrapheap

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.

sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.

Woah cool.

I definitely would agree that 4's 6's and 8's have a little bit of a bite to them. I myself have read some old emails I sent to friends and laughed hysterically because I didn't realize how absurd I can be.

I'll have to think about the "fire and ice" thing verse the stab in the chest thing. I used to test as Sx/Sp quite frequently but I still doubt my Sp is high.
 

Azure Flame

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"It doesn't seem to be an instinctual variant issue as far as I can tell" - That's not the case. These kind of sharp emotions can be due to both instinct variants and enneagram emotional reactive triad which is 4, 6, and 8.

I've dug up this article from 16types. Take a look what it's saying, that sx/sp and sx/so are prone to having "sharp" emotions:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/242-Instinct-scrapheap

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.

sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.

I made a thread about my energy you might be interested in. After reading some of the descriptions for Sx/So I figured I'd map out my energy in MS paint.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63498&p=2105945#post2105945
 

Rail Tracer

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So I read on socionics.com that irrationals tend to have "softer" emotions, while rationals tend to have "sharper" emotions.

Picking out some intense music, I choose one of my LII 5w4 (MBTI INTP) brother's favorite songs, and compared it to my own SLE 8w7 (MBTI I/ESTP) favorite song. The difference is that of being stabbed with a hot knife (rational) versus entering a room that is sweltering. The rational intensity is more point focussed, while the Irrational intensity is more spread out. Let me know if you can hear what I hear.

LII 5w4 (Rational type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG0q-MhzQ7I

SLE 8w7 (Irrational Type)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKVUDr1goPc

Essentially, the former song seems to only affect 1 point in my body, while the second song feels seems to affect my entire body.

Thoughts?

That first one... I REALLY do not like (that is putting it nicely.) As far as direction goes, it goes in one direction. It is... intense... just not the type of intense I like.

The second one (including the previous video of yours,) yes, I would consider it softer, it doesn't feel like it is going in one, and only one, direction. I think it is because it feels like there is some notes that move around. The notes are more easily distinguishable and it doesn't pack as much heat as the first one because of it.

The first just pushed buttons, the second one didn't.

My form of intense would be more like this, however.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCJhhyM3jM
 

Azure Flame

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That first one... I REALLY do not like (that is putting it nicely.) As far as direction goes, it goes in one direction. It is... intense... just not the type of intense I like.

The second one (including the previous video of yours,) yes, I would consider it softer, it doesn't feel like it is going in one, and only one, direction. I think it is because it feels like there is some notes that move around. The notes are more easily distinguishable and it doesn't pack as much heat as the first one because of it.

The first just pushed buttons, the second one didn't.

My form of intense would be more like this, however.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCJhhyM3jM

I found the first song quite terrifying. it actually took me some effort to open myself to listen to it. My brother is a LII 5w4, and his whole inner world is one dark apocalyptic setting. Its incredible. If he made a zombie apocalypse movie, that is the music that would play. But its interesting because, I also found the song quite disturbing as well. But when you listen to it and flip through szadslaw beksinski's art, it somehow brings out just how beautiful his art actually is despite how the photos look on the surface. These photos are pretty intense but illustrate somewhat hidden principles.

Try listening to the song and looking at these pictures. The key is to understand that these are actually happy pictures, you just have to spend some time searching for the happiness. I've written my interpretations of them below each image, they're very INTP Sx:
Zdzislaw-Beksinski-13.jpg


^^ Devotion to loved ones amidst a dangerous world.

Zdzislaw-Beksinski-11.jpg


^^ A parent's intense love and focus for their child as if nothing else in the world matters. (This person is so focussed on her child she doesn't care that there is someone behind her getting eaten by crows)
 

Lady_X

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"It doesn't seem to be an instinctual variant issue as far as I can tell" - That's not the case. These kind of sharp emotions can be due to both instinct variants and enneagram emotional reactive triad which is 4, 6, and 8.

I've dug up this article from 16types. Take a look what it's saying, that sx/sp and sx/so are prone to having "sharp" emotions:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/242-Instinct-scrapheap

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.

sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.

ohhh interesting. i do like music with raw intense emotion but maybe i'm misunderstanding what is meant by that. will listen to the first song in op. listening to 2nd now and love it to death.

edit: that first song was too boring to finish.
 

Azure Flame

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[MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION]
I know I don't really qualify for the music selections and that's good cause all I had was a blank stare.
The reason I think this is a misdirected test is because you didn't factor in words. When someone finds a song they can "relate" to it will be based on their history. The way they represent it is MBTI and Enneagram. Each group is going to prefer a genre but pull from others. So it depends on words. If a song describes one particular EMOTION but is brief, then the chances of an "irrational" person liking it is higher. If it is in depth and describes a particular IDEA the chances of "rational" personal liking it is higher. The beat depends on the mood and personal preference and so does the vocals.
Personally I've observed rational people like slower/ soft songs and irrational like heavier/ louder.

I'll give three examples. One for Irrational, one for Rational, and where they meet in the middle. All from the same artist. Instead of trying to "feel" or focusing on the statement and reason for clicking on the link. Just listen.

Irrational

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTWOAJJ9s1g

Rational

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kY9zvLvzhc

For Both

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StFfXP4eAgU

Let me know how it works ;)

Hmm, the biggest differences I heard in those songs were that your irrational post was more full in sound and the rational post had more pauses and rests in between.
 

Azure Flame

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Hmm, no idea. I like the idea that these "sharp emotions" are attributed to E 4, 6, and 8 (reactive triad), possibly sx instinct related.
 
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