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  1. #71
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I began to read that confession of a sociopath and was so disgusted by her inner process that I couldn't even continue reading it without feeling angry and feeling like she has no right to walk around free among other human beings.
    We don't incarcerate people for their thoughts - at least not yet. I don't see much in this that is different from, as others have pointed out, people that just act like jerks sometimes. Understanding the dynamics of situations as this person does, while being able to remain detached from them is a very valuable and effective combination. As with other tools/methods, it can be used for good or for ill. So, I am more interested in what she does with her life than how she does it. Toying with acquaintances' relationships - not good. Helping friends and students - good. None of us acts with complete benevolence, or effectiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Isn't also comforting to know she's a Mormon Sunday school teacher?

    Narcissistic and Sociopathic types are par excellence in playing the game to appear more normal than normal.
    Yes, the Mormon/sunday school part was interesting - a good cover. Her observations about the nature of that church system and how it can be used were right on the mark, though.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #72
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Well, this makes me absolutely terrified at the prospect of adopting a non-infant (something I've been considering lately). I know not all adopted children have issues like this, but how difficult must that have been for the poor adoptive parents? Their dream comes true and then they end up with such a terrible situation. Yikes.
    yes. I mean, it's not a lot different in some ways than having your own bio kid -- you never know what you'll get, and then you deal with it or not. (For example, my younger son was born with cystic fibrosis -- totally caught us off-guard.) There are things you just rise to the occasion for because you are a parent and you are connected to your child. However, different people deal better or worse with different ailments; for example, if my son had needed full-time care or had been intellectually disabled in some way, that would have been much harder for me than a physical ailment. Still... it's your child.

    maybe an adopted child has different dynamics, when there are unexpected problems.

    Interesting that on the "Advocate for Children in Therapy" website, it specifies that Beth is apparently "the only independent adult survivor of Attachment Therapy/Parenting to speak well of Attachment Therapy."
    That seems a pretty bold claim, considering there could be a silent crowd out there who just doesn't talk about it to maintain privacy, and people tend to be far more public about things they do not like vs things they do. (Just work in customer service for a day.) I don't know.

    I did watch all the video. What Beth undertook was very very strenuous -- they basically took away all her freedom, until she learned she could trust the people in charge of her life and built a connection with them, and then they slowly gave her control back as she proved trustworthy. That sounds horribly drastic; then again, she was killing animals, beating up her little brother constantly to the point of hospital visits, and had taken knives and was talking about stabbing her family to death while she slept, which is also pretty drastic. Maybe if things are bad enough, you essentially have to start over at the point where kids normally develop attachment and go from there. But it does mean the adults involved have to be beyond reproach and have an immense responsibility, with the role they are forcing themselves to play in the child's life.

    Also, I think Attachment Therapy/Parenting covers a lot of ground -- it's an umbrella term and could involve a range of techniques -- so I don't know if criticism of one type is indicative of another. Or am I misunderstanding AT?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  3. #73
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I get confused because I was into something called Attachment Parenting when my kids were little, but it had nothing to do with this kind of Attachment Therapy (and they also refer to Attachment Parenting, but they're not talking about what I know as Attachment Parenting). What I did was basically just "breastfeed as long as mother and child both want to, don't fear the family bed if it works for you, and hold the baby a lot until it wants to get down and explore, then let it."

  4. #74
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I also think she seems like an ESFJ. That was my impression of her adult picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I get confused because I was into something called Attachment Parenting when my kids were little, but it had nothing to do with this kind of Attachment Therapy (and they also refer to Attachment Parenting, but they're not talking about what I know as Attachment Parenting). What I did was basically just "breastfeed as long as mother and child both want to, don't fear the family bed if it works for you, and hold the baby a lot until it wants to get down and explore, then let it."
    Interesting you mention this. The fact that this is a specific method of parenting and not the norm (like it usually is in tribal cultures) I think is indicative of the level of attachment issues people have in the general population. There's a common theme, misusing in some cases a common label.

  5. #75
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    Hooray, now from her mere picture we've figured out she's (1) an ESFJ and (2) the spawn of Satan's seed.

    Anyone want to volunteer the third side of this sordid triangle?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #76
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    i think they made a tv movie based on this story, i never saw it except for this very disturbing but hilarious clip


  7. #77
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hooray, now from her mere picture we've figured out she's (1) an ESFJ and (2) the spawn of Satan's seed.

    Anyone want to volunteer the third side of this sordid triangle?

    She's Black?
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  8. #78
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    One other example of attachment therapy working is Daniel Solomon, whose story you can listen to here.
    Did anyone else listen to this? Its a different case, but it gives some more insight into the adoptive parents' perspective. It doesn't have sources listed, just the family telling their own story. But it shows the depths of the parents struggle and Daniel's turnaround. Heidi Solomon describes the logic of the treatment which speaks more to the lack of opportunity to grow empathy and a conscience in abused and neglected children rather than the inability to do so in normal circumstances that psychopaths exhibit. In this case you cannot see Daniel so there won't be any eye evaluations, but I still encourage you to consider this story as you consider the plight of these families. I know adopted families with international adoptees who were in late childhood when they were adopted. They've told me about the anguish families feel when they are dealing with attachment disorder children. They call them onions, because the more you work with them, the more you cry.
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  9. #79
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Honest stuff here..

    I know what this girl is and all, but to be completely honest her eyes don't scare me and neither does anything about the way she acts, really. She strikes me as a badass, in a sense that I actually admire. All sociopaths do, actually. Sometimes I wish I were a sociopath, does that make me fucked up?

    They lack something that normal people have, something that I see as pathetic. It's hard to put a finger on and define it exactly. Sociopaths are believers. If they believe in pure hatred and malice, at least they believe in something. Normal people are afraid to believe in anything so wholeheartedly. Maybe that's it. And you can see it in their confidence. When I look at that girl in the video, I think she is amazing.. thrilling.. powerful.. even godlike. And I love her eyes, and her unabashedness. I find her desire for existential revenge and desecration totally relatable. She is a product of the nightmare world she was born into, and there is a kind of beauty in nightmares. I honestly think she is a lovely child and hope god has mercy on her. I see an angel in her, even more readily than I do anyone else.

    Then again, maybe I just think normal people are stupid and sociopaths aren't.

    Now... don't get me wrong, when I hear about someone being a sociopath or suspect it IRL, I immediately stay as far away from that person as possible, because I know what's good for me. It would be incredibly ignorant to voluntarily try to "help" a sociopath. It is indeed tragic that others will become victims of this sort of thing. That girl's brother? I can't imagine how horrible it must be for him. I dunno why this sort of shit happens. Then again, I've never been exposed to it, it is totally alien to me. Things I don't know...

    I guess in the end, to me this girl is kind of like a baby lion or something. I love animals. They are innocent, even when they are predators. It's just their nature. Animals don't have a bunch of big ideas about things, either. They are just themselves.

    And here's the kicker: I think her mom's eyes are crazier than hers. Her mom's eyes scare me. I find them hateful and fearful.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I get confused because I was into something called Attachment Parenting when my kids were little, but it had nothing to do with this kind of Attachment Therapy (and they also refer to Attachment Parenting, but they're not talking about what I know as Attachment Parenting). What I did was basically just "breastfeed as long as mother and child both want to, don't fear the family bed if it works for you, and hold the baby a lot until it wants to get down and explore, then let it."
    Yeah, I get confused by the definitions too, there is a version of attachment therapy which I object to which suggests that restriction of movement, frequent restraints, even a bizarre re-enactment of birth called "rebirthing" which has nothing to do with the attachment theory which I know but its often confused and conflated with the same theories.

    What you described in a single sentence there is what I know of as attachment parenting, its providing a secure base from which a child can experience security and then proceed to explore the world in confidence from.

    Its really hard to develop that when early life experience, deprivation and abuse has soft or hard wired other responses into the brain, so the secure base is threatening and a source of pain, the internal conflict between seeking attachment and being terrified and having an aversion to the source of attachment will burn out or permanently change centres in the brain.

    That said its possible to provide rebalancing experiences, its just INCREDIBLY HARD WORK and you need to be pretty resilent yourself, able to experience and bounce back from trauma, even in those who are permanently effected its possible to provide coping strategies and potential or capacity for adjustment. Human history has a lot of examples of people adjusting which people dont recognise, usually physical traits, being a minority ethnicity, differences in appearence which could be stigmatised etc., physical disabilities and I see psychological traits as in the same range.
    @Aquarelle

    There are risks of this sort of thing associated with all social services adoption services children, although that family should have been informed, those children and their life experiences would mandate professional and specialist adoptive parents or foster carers but resources of that kind are scarce and sometimes decisions are made to go with whatever is available. I dont think its particularly fair to anyone involved, child or parents but the assessment of the parents appeared to have been conducted correctly, they said all the right things about not seeking an adoption to meet unmet adult needs etc. It happens.

    I think there are other adoption agencies and services though, I am not that clued upon them, but I know there were Roman Catholic ones which operated connecting families with the desire to adopt with families who had unplanned pregnancies and did not wish to parent the children and who would consider abortion unconscienable. I remember seeing videos about these agencies at school, they were actually American videos, featuring American actors and agencies, we were shown them during pastoral care classes to impress upon, particularly female pupils (sexist I know) that there were options (pro-life ones) if they fell pregnant.

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