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  1. #31
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Not when Beth is the only adult who has received the therapy to advocate it. I think that speaks volumes. I inferred two possibilities anyway one at either end of a spectrum, of course theres the whole middle part (or even more extremes) to explore if you chose to.
    Sure. But I can think of other times an adult advocated something that actually helped them, while ignoring that is has helped virtually no one else. There are bound to be rare successes with anything, and it's very human to promote a personal experience like that in spite of general evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I also just wanted to say that very end of the video is so rehearsed, the way she changes her answer to "Who did you hurt the most?" to herself. They'd obviously been coaching that answer for a while. She's learned to speak their language. Does she actually believe it? I don't know.

    I'm inclined to think not.
    I noticed that, too. It was very obvious that she was repeating something. What impact it actually had on her as a person is hard to asy. I suppose it's partly a question of what you consider success.

    Take this hypothetical scenario: What if beth's psychology today is totally sociopathic, but she has been conditioned in ways that result in her being nor more harmful on average than an average human being. Would that be success?
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  2. #32
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Sure. But I can think of other times an adult advocated something that actually helped them, while ignoring that is has helped virtually no one else. There are bound to be rare successes with anything, and it's very human to promote a personal experience like in spite of general evidence.
    Yes ok, i see your point, an individual may prefer and thrive on being 'opressed' though the vast majority will not. And who are we (being anyone else) to say that they should not be opressed if it has helped them individually? has it though? Look at the list of types of therapies and how they are implemented... do you really think anyone can benefit from that?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I noticed that, too. It was very obvious that she was repeating something. What impact it actually had on her as a person is hard to asy. I suppose it's partly a question of what you consider success.

    Take this hypothetical scenario: What if beth's psychology today is totally sociopathic, but she has been conditioned in ways that result in her being nor more harmful on average than an average human being. Would that be success?
    Yes, that would be a success, just like this self-confessed sociopath is a success. Kind of.

    Like @zago said, they've just learned another way to fool the suckers who believe in reform and blend in. Blending in is good but I wouldn't repose too much trust in it.

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Yes, that would be a success, just like this self-confessed sociopath is a success. Kind of.
    This kind of thing seems inconsistent to me.

    If someone has the capacity for self-reflection and can empathize well enough to write a meaningful article about it, then what is preventing them from engaging others in a more empathetic fashion, except selfishness?

    My understand of mental illness is that perceptions are off to the degree that they're locked in a particular framework and can't really think outside of it; yet this articule is written by someone who very much can do so.

    Are they really "sociopathic" clinically? Or just maladjusted? Or having trust issues? Or what exactly? At what point did mental illness become a justification for what amounts to actual choices on how to relate? Why isn't this called "assholery" as we would call it in anyone else, rather than "a mental illness"? It seems to do an injustice to those with an actual disorder. (I've had friends who have dealt with family members with real attachment disorders and it's not a pretty thing and can lead to institutionalizing at times.)

    I'm just not really convinced this writer is a mentally-ill sociopath; they just seem to do jerky things and are self-absorbed. Wearing a cool label seems like just another status symbol.
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  5. #35
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    Pathological selfishness probably is sociopathy. I don't think it's "just selfish" if it's pathological.

    Also, I'm pretty sure that woman was diagnosed as such.

  6. #36
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This kind of thing seems inconsistent to me.

    If someone has the capacity for self-reflection and can empathize well enough to write a meaningful article about it, then what is preventing them from engaging others in a more empathetic fashion, except selfishness?

    My understand of mental illness is that perceptions are off to the degree that they're locked in a particular framework and can't really think outside of it; yet this articule is written by someone who very much can do so.

    Are they really "sociopathic" clinically? Or just maladjusted? Or having trust issues? Or what exactly? At what point did mental illness become a justification for what amounts to actual choices on how to relate? Why isn't this called "assholery" as we would call it in anyone else, rather than "a mental illness"? It seems to do an injustice to those with an actual disorder. (I've had friends who have dealt with family members with real attachment disorders and it's not a pretty thing and can lead to institutionalizing at times.)

    I'm just not really convinced this writer is a mentally-ill sociopath; they just seem to do jerky things and are self-absorbed. Wearing a cool label seems like just another status symbol.
    I did find it a little weird because personality disorders are supposed to be characterized by difficulty recognizing them in oneself.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I did find it a little weird because personality disorders are supposed to be characterizde by difficulty recognizing them in oneself.
    Then again, Psychology Today isn't exactly a peer-reviewed medical journal.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Pathological selfishness probably is sociopathy. I don't think it's "just selfish" if it's pathological.
    At what point is a behavior you can recognize under your control, vs a mental illness that you cannot control? Pathologically "anything" means you don't even recognize you do it, you do it habitually. But this person seems to be very aware of it. Does that make it an illness?

    Also, I'm pretty sure that woman was diagnosed as such.
    I don't really give a crap about that, because people can pretty much shop around to get what diagnosis they want if they go to the right doctor. I'd have to know the reputation of the doctor, for it to matter.

    I'm saying the presentation doesn't seem to fit the literature. Why?

    I should go watch Bundy again. I still remember that snow job he gave James Dobson the night before his execution, blaming his crimes on porn.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm saying the presentation doesn't seem to fit the literature. Why?
    Maybe it's a ruse to attract a large pool of suckers and mess with them.

    .

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    I understand what you are saying marm i just think it's out of context slightly to be making such a judgement. If you look closely, and remember it's a quote so we might be missing punctuation, and definately accuentutation and intonation, well anyway it's here...

    "Then you’re moving along into your psychopaths and sociopaths. And you’ve got Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. And like Edgar Allen Poe, Saddam Hussein…"

    There is a full stop after Dahmer... she mentions Bundy and Dahmer in realtion to psychopaths and sociopaths imo.
    Then she goes on to mention Edgar Allen, uses a comma and then Sadam but it's unfinished so how can we know what she moves onto unless we actually watch the vid? She could continue with "...was a poet"... the point being we do not have this info. She could just as easily have said "unlike" and it was confused with "and like"... or as you have mentioned she really could be confused re:ethics. The child in the vid did not seem that way to me though.


    EDIT: I also found this...

    http://www.arc-aflc.com/Chosen%20Chi...Conference.htm

    Aparently she is now a neonatal nurse, of course this link just tells us (suggests) what her job is and nothing about who she is.
    But it's not out of context at all. That was her quote. She trailed off at the end. She's describing so-called "sociopaths" and mentioned Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, then said Edgar Alllen Poe (??) and Saddam Hussein. That was her list of sociopaths. The sentence was not cut off. That's a typical thing (ellipsis) used when a speaking person trails off without explanation at the end of a sentence. She said Saddam Hussein after Poe, so she was not going to say "a poet."

    Any sane or reputable journalist would explain a quote like that, if it had continued. Please.

    Also, I don't think comparing prostitutes to murderers is sane in any way, explaining that "prostitutes control by their victimhood like murderers control by their aggression" is so absurd of a comparison it would almost be like saying "Your argument is invalid because this cat is soup."

    Her sense of morals are not rational, meaning she's not using her own Feeling function. This would be things a child might say if they were trying to mimic an adult.


    The fact that you also cannot see that the child has the eyes of a sociopath in the video also alarms me. You should be careful around strangers.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    I'm with you on that, the bird thing though, that sticks with me. I had the feeling that this was a severely damaged child who could benefit from therapy. Weather she received 'good' (appropriate/beneficial) therapy or weather she was abused more i just don't know. I wonder who the male therapist who's voice we hear in the vid is?
    I wonder that too and why she was given a male therapist after being molested as a baby.

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