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  1. #211
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Are you referring to the thousand-yard stare? Were they combat veterans? I certainly had that in basic training.
    That actually looks more like some of the links in this thread to other neglected children. I realize this young girl of the thread topic was acting out her PTSD, but she didn't have a traumatized stare, she was speaking calmly about how she tortures and desires to kill those around her.

    In a larger context, there is definitely a problem using just the impression of someone's eyes to judge their condition. This thread makes that clear because of the way everyone is seeing it differently. People tend to see a more general impression of maladjustment and neuro-atypical aspects to people's eyes.

    That being said, I would not discount an individual's ability to read the nuance of true, sociopathic eyes. I think it is possible that @marm has more ability to do this than most anyone/everyone else in this thread. Once you interact with a true sociopath/psychopath, it provides a different ability to read the nuance of their expression. For posters who have not interacted with such a person, how could they read the specific nuances of it in someone's eyes? Well, they probably cannot and that is evident in the expressed inability to distinguish between different types of distance, hyper-focus, and trauma in various examples of non-expression in this thread.

    For whatever this is worth, each expression shown in this thread look very different to me. Some are opposites - especially the deep authenticity vs. the artifice in various expressions. The two I would relate as most similar is the neglected girl @Vasilisa posted and the soldier's eyes that @Moniker posted.

    My position is that different people have differing levels of ability to distinguish what a person's eyes are expressing. Because of this it is important to not dismiss someone's impression, but also to realize it would be dangerous to expect accuracy from people in general.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #212
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    These are the two I find most similar. If you notice the trauma in their eyes combined with the lack of use of any facial muscles. It is like being in shock and deeply reactionary. There is no aggression, but an expressed inability to process what has been forced upon them.



    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #213
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    One more comment about "flat eyes" and expression. This is partly from personal observation over the years and partly Freudian in its concept, but people with a lot of aggression can have a tendency to overuse the muscles around the mouth. From aggression and passive-aggression based people I've interacted with I've noticed that this can result in a kind of over-enunciation and exaggeration of the mouth, or it can tighten down the mouth so it is very tense and barely moves.

    A comedic example of this is Dwight from the American version of "The Office". He overly uses the muscles around his mouth without expressing much in the eyes. It is funny, but it adds to the effect of him being overly aggressive. The adult image of the woman of this thread has that overly fired up muscles around the mouth without any expression in the eyes, so not only does it appear false, there is a hostile feeling associated with it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    The start is very disturbing (I mean it), but the ending is beautiful. She evolves from utterly cruel/cold/sadistic/remorseless to a pretty 'normal' child.

    I looked around for some more info online and found out this:

    There appears to be confusion as to which therapist took Beth into her home for intensive attachment therapy. Some people believe it was Nancy Thomas however this is inaccurate. Connell Watkins rehabilitated Beth in her home and it appears she did a remarkable job. There is also an ongoing debate about Beth’s current mental state, her career choice of R.N. working with children, and her recovery. Due to Thomas’s extreme change in personality as a child and her ability to bond with others, I believe she is fully recovered and a good candidate for working with children with extreme RAD (reactive attachment disorder).Note that Thomas doesn’t work with children with moderate RAD symptoms but rather children whose severe mental condition have echoed her own.

    It is Nancy Thomas, Beth’s adoptive mother, who concerns me. She is currently associated with a clinic that was established by Connell Watkins and Julie Ponder, both of whom are responsible for the suffocation death (re-birthing therapy) of 10-year-old Candace Newmaker. Beth and Nancy have since opened their own clinic treating children with RAD.
    This precipitated the legislation known as Candace's Law, which bans therapeutic reenactment of the birth process.

    Just interesting info.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #215
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ... well, usually... unless you're actually deceased.

    (just sayin')
    don't eyes turn blueish when you die or have cataracts? not seen many dead people and all i've seen are the ones in caskets at funerals, and their eyes were shut
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #216
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    These are the two I find most similar. If you notice the trauma in their eyes combined with the lack of use of any facial muscles. It is like being in shock and deeply reactionary. There is no aggression, but an expressed inability to process what has been forced upon them.
    One of the best movie portrayals of a traumatized mind that dissociates from the present reality is in the movie Full Metal Jacket. After Pvt. Pyle is physically assaulted by his whole platoon with a towel party, he detaches from his environment completely. There's a scene where his rackmate has to help him put his uniform on because his consciousness is not attuned to what's going on. After that, he loses his mind completely and kills his senior drill instructor and himself.


  7. #217
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I looked around for some more info online and found out this:



    This precipitated the legislation known as Candace's Law, which bans therapeutic reenactment of the birth process.

    Just interesting info.
    That was pretty good info, thank you for sharing.

    I guess the 'attachment therapy' that everyone has been criticizing was not exactly what Beth went through - something I intuitively knew having watched the full video, but didn't have data to support.

    The people who were taking care of her didn't seem violent at all. Rigorous, sure, but they seemed to care about giving love and leading by example instead of using fear to achieve their goals.

    When I searched for attachment theraphy on google images I got this picture:



    And holy crap, that's the kind of face I only see in horror movies. She doesn't even look like a human anymore. I wonder how much she charges to haunt a 200 sqm house.

    Otoh, Beth might still look manipulative and all, but she doesn't look like a shell of her form self. Which leads me to believe that the methods have gotten macabre after this first 'success' with Beth.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  8. #218
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Otoh, Beth might still look manipulative and all, but she doesn't look like a shell of her form self. Which leads me to believe that the methods have gotten macabre after this first 'success' with Beth.
    Have you read this? Nancy Thomas, Beth's 'mom':
    http://childrenintherapy.org/proponents/thomasn.html

    Read the 'in her own words' bit. It's pretty messed up. Her tone is quite abusive, and she advocates yelling at children, making misbehaving children sit still for 10 hours and calls them 'little furniture', using sugar as reward for good behavior, tells you know children should worship parents, and weird things like that.

    I think... Beth was messed up, and the so-called Attachment Therapy administered by her 'mom' just 'brainwashed'/'reconditioned' her -- but I don't know if it's for the better or worse.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  9. #219
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    What do you think of this expression and face? If you recognize her please don't say anything.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #220
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    What do you think of this expression and face? If you recognize her please don't say anything.
    She looks crazy.

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