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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    I have no desire to not do not that.
    Oh good, nor do I have any desire to not do not that. Meeting adjourned!

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Thanks for sharing that with us, it certainly explains a lot about you.







    I know you have some anger at your mother who has BPD, but your snarky reply to me is unnecessary. Please do not contact me again, particularly not to solicit me to work for you. Thank you.

  3. #173
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Her eyes are more like Ted Bundy's than they are Katy Perry's despite their large blueness. I see a bunch of infantile arguments based sheerly upon emotions about Austistic children in this thread, being applied to a child who coldly and articulately described murdering her adoptive family, as well as beating her brother half to death and molesting him.

    I honestly don't think this thread is about Beth anymore.

    And I am including you in "you guys" because you're saying how you're tolerant of people with disorders because of having an Autistic child but to compare your Autistic child or my non-violent schizoaffective sister to a psychopath is more than a little intellectually dishonest.

    Or maybe it's not. Maybe you really believe anyone can be "saved" but it's been shown time and time again that certain people are not completely able to be rehabilitated. Those people are usually sociopaths and/or psychopaths.

    Which is why I said early on the death sentence should exist solely for them, because once they start murdering or harming others they typically don't stop.
    Oh there are many things I am not tolerant of, but i think you misunderstand my position on Beth. I thought as a child she was not passed 'saving' but as i looked more into it i became concerned about the type of treatment she was having, how much of it was rehearsed, weather she was actually being abused further instead of receiving much needed therapy. I have done a fair amount of research on this case since the thread started, i have posted a lot of links and info and some of my initial feelings i have questioned.

    I am very concerned that she is a neonatal nurse, and i hope that there is sufficient monitoring in the hospital she works in. However if she were coached into saying those things and there was a nasty cover up of her actual treatment then i think it would be terrible that she is being judged so harshly. My point remains that i do not know these things therefor i can not judge the situation.

    There was one comment reagrding eyes in autistic children having been called creepy, there no comparrison between autism and psychopathy. You continued with eyes which was why i posted a picture of my daughters eyes, i had no ulterior motive, i was not trying to insinuate any connection, i thought you were interested as you had stated so.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Oh there are many things I am not tolerant of, but i think you misunderstand my position on Beth. I thought as a child she was not passed 'saving' but as i looked more into it i became concerned about the type of treatment she was having, how much of it was rehearsed, weather she was actually being abused further instead of receiving much needed therapy. I have done a fair amount of research on this case since the thread started, i have posted a lot of links and info and some of my initial feelings i have questioned.

    I am very concerned that she is a neonatal nurse, and i hope that there is sufficient monitoring in the hospital she works in. However if she were coached into saying those things and there was a nasty cover up of her actual treatment then i think it would be terrible that she is being judged so harshly. My point remains that i do not know these things therefor i can not judge the situation.

    There was one comment reagrding eyes in autistic children having been called creepy, there no comparrison between autism and psychopathy. You continued with eyes which was why i posted a picture of my daughters eyes, i had no ulterior motive, i was not trying to insinuate any connection, i thought you were interested as you had stated so.
    I just think people are misunderstanding what I see in her eyes. I mentioned way earlier in the thread if this was an Se or Ne issue or what, but to me her eyes more clearly resemble the flatness you see in Ted Bundy's brown eyes as an adult, not in your Autistic child's large blue eyes, nor in Katy Perry's.

    It's a quality of flatness and meanness that she appears to not have completely lost as an adult. I don't think my observation calls for all of this bruhaha and mockery in this thread, as if what I said was outrageous.

    It turned from a thread about a child with violent tendencies who underwent a questionable treatment that has been rejected by many others and the distinct possibility that as an intelligent sociopath she would be bright enough to "pass" as "normal" to the peril of others, that may include children in her care...into some exaggerated argument about the rights of people with disorders to not be judged.

    I apologize if I misunderstood you, but I also think a lot of people are misunderstanding me, thinking this is about the color of her eyes, or lighting, it's really disrespectful and off-topic, when there are a myriad of examples of people with sociopathic tendencies or who are convicted psychopaths in prison (or who were on death row) who have a similar eye flatness despite color.

    I think you're being very fair.

    Thanks for your reply.

  5. #175
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    My daughters eyes...

    Attachment 9679
    Reminds me of the Death Note character 'L':

    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #176
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Hmmm interesting observations but i'm not sure i entirely agree, i would say that some autistic individuals find it difficult to understand things from others perspectives but they do have very real and reactionary feelings... even if they do not completely understand them (most are very capable of it). Also some autistic persons are empaths. I don't think attachment is so much of a problem, i have seen dozens and dozens of autistic children and adults all with very firm attachments. Change however and possibly new attachment they (generally) can have difficulty with.

    It is common as i mentioned before hand for autistic individuals to have larger than usual eyes... unsure of the mouth...

    My daughters eyes...

    Attachment 9679
    eyes seem normal to me i don't think they look larger than usual, which shows partially you can't diagnose a person on their eyes alone.otherwise it wouldn't take years and diagnositic changes for diagnosis to happen. geeze humans get real.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    eyes seem normal to me i don't think they look larger than usual, which shows partially you can't diagnose a person on their eyes alone.otherwise it wouldn't take years and diagnositic changes for diagnosis to happen. geeze humans get real.
    Yah maybe i should have said larger than average. A lot of people have commented on my daughters eyes, mainly positive. Maybe it's that she has larger than other family members eyes... and that's something i have personally noted (annecdotal). But this is just personal experience, i was not suggesting anyone use it for diagnosis and i certainly was not suggesting my daughter has psychopathy.

    I'm not even convinced marm does not see/pick up on psychopathy/sociopathy instinctually, it does happen. I think jennifer was mentioning something about people being instinctual, picking up on and honing in on details... maybe in preparation for fight or flight? I forget.

    While i do think some people will be more atuned than others at picking up on these things we still have to tread carefully and check in.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #178
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Yah maybe i should have said larger than average. A lot of people have commented on my daughters eyes, mainly positive. Maybe it's that she has larger than other family members eyes... and that's something i have personally noted (annecdotal). But this is just personal experience, i was not suggesting anyone use it for diagnosis and i certainly was not suggesting my daughter has psychopathy.

    I'm not even convinced marm does not see/pick up on psychopathy/sociopathy instinctually, it does happen. I think jennifer was mentioning something about people being instinctual, picking up on and honing in on details... maybe in preparation for fight or flight? I forget.

    While i do think some people will be more atuned than others at picking up on these things we still have to tread carefully and check in.
    maybe i'm naive but i don't remember what your eyes look like. Also i might be naive cuz i don't pick up on this stuff easily it takes me getting into pretty deep shit before i realize i'm being swindled people just seem nice to me, that's all.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post

    I'm not even convinced marm does not see/pick up on psychopathy/sociopathy instinctually, it does happen. I think jennifer was mentioning something about people being instinctual, picking up on and honing in on details... maybe in preparation for fight or flight? I forget.

    While i do think some people will be more atuned than others at picking up on these things we still have to tread carefully and check in.
    I've checked out some other web sites about Beth Thomas, on one forum I found another person who said that they noticed not only Beth's eyes, but that the eyes of children diagnosed like her are all chillingly the same.

    Attachment Disorder is a made up term, just FYI. Attachment disorder can be used to explain ANY dysfunctional pattern of bonding, running the gamut from being non-communicative to hostile to overly attention seeking or too trusting of strangers with inappropriately infantile behavior. It is not a real disorder *alone* it is simply a state that is indicative of many different states of so-called dysfunctional bonding, whether this was with one abusive care giver, or simply having many care givers (none of which who were abusive).

    SOOOO....

    And this form of "therapy" is widely criticized as being a form of child abuse. To me it more or less looks like Behaviorism, that is, modifying behavior without actually changing the internal state. And without the internal state being changed, it's highly possible that a sociopath could learn simply how to behave better but be inwardly calculating after receiving the "therapy" (part of the reason for my skepticism with Beth).

    I know of people who work with disturbed or abused children, and all who are abused do not act like Beth, so there is some neurological component here most likely, hence the eye thing.

    If I was to come in here and post photographs of adult serial killers and comment on their wild or cold eyes, no one would probably bat an eyelash, but because I dared to say it about a child, hence forth a bunch of bullshit drama.

    It's funny to me that people were so critical of my opinion, but didn't criticize Vasilisa or Rasofy in the same manner, even as she and he sit here and advocate a form of therapy that some people consider a form of severe systematic child abuse.

    I do believe that spotting the cruel and sociopathic is possible, and I am even further convinced that I am right, since people seemed to blatantly misunderstand what I was seeing in the first place (strangely comparing people with the same color of eyes, instead of the same expression or quality in the eyes).

  10. #180
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know about that, people are not alert to them most of the time and I dont think its not unreasonable that they arent, especially if the same individuals have been clever enough to take up particular positions in order to carry out their crimes, in fiction there's Dexter, he's a forensic scene of crime officer, in point of fact some psycho like or at least conscienceless individuals became priests or exploited the positions of priests in their communities in order to carry out predatory acts.

    I would question whether or not its realistic for the average individual to be totally vigilant and on the alert all the time to these kinds of people, the psychology is totally different, its a little bit like saying why cant wilder beast be more like lions, that is with none of the conventional disrespect of wilderbeast either, they are living their lives and I'm sure they are good lives but they arent lions and cant be expected to live accordingly or as a lion.

    I've known a lot of victims of predators and my reactions to them are that they could be any of us, they arent morons, the people they dealt with are not evil genius' either, although they were something different to what the survivors thought they were and they behaved in reprehensible ways that no one could really be expected to be on the guard against in the normal run of things.

    Consider the guy who was responsible for the bind, torture and kill serial killings too, that guy wasnt a criminal mastermind, he was just someone no one would suspect.
    I agree that most people don't suspect the psychopaths among us, and it would take a great deal of effort to be that vigilant. My comment addressed the idea of premeditation vs. seeking instant gratification. I think the more premeditated and patient a psychopath is, the harder to detect and defend against him/her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I honestly don't think this thread is about Beth anymore.
    It isn't. Some of us have branched out into a more general discussion of psychopathy, of which she is just one example.

    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Oh there are many things I am not tolerant of, but i think you misunderstand my position on Beth. I thought as a child she was not passed 'saving' but as i looked more into it i became concerned about the type of treatment she was having, how much of it was rehearsed, weather she was actually being abused further instead of receiving much needed therapy. I have done a fair amount of research on this case since the thread started, i have posted a lot of links and info and some of my initial feelings i have questioned.
    There are actually two problems here: (1) how Beth was abused as a small child; and (2) the appropriateness of her treatment once she was removed from that situation. The cure may have been worse than the disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    She discusses her plans for cruelty or death so calmly, this is the trait of the psychopath or sociopath.

    She's 6, she's not crying or screaming or acting awkwardly, she's straight forwardly telling you how she's going to stab people in the night.
    I meant to point out before that psychopaths do not have a monopoly on discussing dire events dispassionately. The ability to detach emotionally from such situations and address them calmly is valuable. I would be more concerned about Beth's intentions than her manner.

    P.S. Has anyone seen the old Jodie Foster movie, The little girl who lived down the lane? I wouldn't consider the title character a psychopath, but some of the observations here made me think of it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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