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  1. #151
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Whatever is the truth about such scenarios is deeply important to discover and know, and so one must remain continually open to the possibility such a person has overcome their sadism,mbut also be open to the possibility that they have not.
    This pretty much says it all IMO- this is the balance I've been trying to describe between keeping yourself safe but not demonizing the other without evidence (and I don't believe "her eyes look like a sociopath's eyes" is valid evidence for that- certainly it's enough to justify keeping your distance for personal safety reasons, as there is NO obligation to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to personal safety; I very highly recommend a book called Protecting the Gift by Gavin de Becker about this topic).

  2. #152
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This pretty much says it all IMO- this is the balance I've been trying to describe between keeping yourself safe but not demonizing the other without evidence (and I don't believe "her eyes look like a sociopath's eyes" is valid evidence for that- certainly it's enough to justify keeping your distance for personal safety reasons, as there is NO obligation to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to personal safety; I very highly recommend a book called Protecting the Gift by Gavin de Becker about this topic).
    I'll vouch for Gavin here.
    The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift are both great books.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #153
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    But what motivates a psychopath to do what they do, and by that I mean everything they do? Anything from choosing a job, to deciding where to live, or whether to accept an invitation, or how to interact with the neighbors. We say they are motivated by self interest with no regard for the rights and sensibilities of others, but what are their self-interests? Are these as diverse as they are for the rest of us - everything from creature comforts, to wealth, to knowledge, to fun/excitement - or as I asked before, are psychopaths driven by the desire to hurt others for its own sake? If they are not, then the damage they do is essentially collateral, and not the object of their efforts. That neither excuses it nor diminishes its effects, but does suggest a different understanding of their motivations.
    This also interests me a great deal. I am certain phycho/sociopaths can enjoy others enjoying themselves if they themselves are part of it. E.g at a dance club they may possibly enjoy dancing with another person and do not necessarily begrudge the other party enjoying themselves. And yes i imagine their areas of interest will be diverse but there will definately be a focus on instant gratification.

    But clearly there is a line that you step over once you affect their own preferences/choices/lifestyle. I do think a psychopath can be in a mutually beneficial short term (sexual/romantic) relationship... it may have include certain ingredients to be viable and i doubt very much a long term healthy relationship is possible.... certainly not without some insight, therapy and a great deal of understanding and work.

    I see that they often work in the short -term moving on as and when necessary in order not to be cuaght out. Thrill seeking, a typical con artist type. I think their greatest concern is often not to be caught out.

    There's a huge amount of damage/hurt/suffering these individuals can cause so research and knowledge is valuable in order to minimise this.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #154
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'll vouch for Gavin here.
    The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift are both great books.
    Now that you mention it I think it was The Gift of Fear that talked about trusting your instincts and not trying to be "nice" and give people a fair shake when it comes to your own personal safety. I read them both around teh same time and they made a huge impact on the way I parent.

  5. #155
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Oh! I just went looking for the books and found them. They are by Torey Hayden

    'One Child' and 'Tigers Child', I must forewarn some parts are very disturbing.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #156
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Now that you mention it I think it was The Gift of Fear that talked about trusting your instincts and not trying to be "nice" and give people a fair shake when it comes to your own personal safety. I read them both around teh same time and they made a huge impact on the way I parent.
    Yeah, I always remember the first example about the woman who was ushered into her apartment by an assailment who promised not to hurt her after he had raped her (I think), but she didn't believe him even as she didn't understand why. She grabbed a blanket and silently followed him through her apartment and out her front door to a neighbor's apartment, as he walked into the kitchen looking for a knife. Later she realized it was the fact he had been putting down the windows in her apartment; the insinuation was that he was doing so in order to stifle any noises she might have made. At the time, it's like her mind was picking up on details and responding to them, before she could consciously process them; she just knew she wasn't safe.

    De Becker learned much of this at a young age. When he was a boy, his mother shot his estranged father/boyfriend one night in the kitchen, and seconds before she did, he took his sibling into the bedroom and hid them. He said later when recalling the event, it came to him that it was how his mother was stepping AWAY from her father, to distance herself, that telegraphed that tonight she planned to actually pull the trigger.

    There is a lot of data that comes at us that we can get vibes from, even if we can't put words to it right then, and it's okay to act on it at the time in order to make sure we are safe. That's a little different than summarizing someone's character and putting it out there without confirmation.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #157
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    This also interests me a great deal. I am certain phycho/sociopaths can enjoy others enjoying themselves if they themselves are part of it. E.g at a dance club they may possibly enjoy dancing with another person and do not necessarily begrudge the other party enjoying themselves. And yes i imagine their areas of interest will be diverse but there will definately be a focus on instant gratification.
    I had thought the reverse - that psychopaths schemed very carefully to get what they want, manipulating the world around them with great patience and foresight. But perhaps that is just a stereotype.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Wow yes, i just read through that, it's interesting the diagnosis they gave her. I have heard of developmental autism before but not really seen a case it was made... though i did have a vague understanding of which circumstances it would be made in. Gosh i really hope that family are as genuine and loving as they seem.
    There was a documentary made some years ago about Genie, the case from 1970 mentioned in passing in the aforementioned Tampa article. You may have seen it already. If not, it may interest you.

  9. #159
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I had thought the reverse - that psychopaths schemed very carefully to get what they want, manipulating the world around them with great patience and foresight. But perhaps that is just a stereotype.
    Oh yes certainly, i don't dispute that at all, i was just mentioning that it is also possible for them to enjoy being with another being as long as they themselves are having their desires met. That is not to say they will not discard that other as soon as they are no longer imperitive to their personal enjoyment. Oh right the foresight. Yes also this i believe, often with the shorter term in mind too, but yes plenty of scheming, and often on the feet thinking.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #160
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Honest stuff here..

    I know what this girl is and all, but to be completely honest her eyes don't scare me and neither does anything about the way she acts, really. She strikes me as a badass, in a sense that I actually admire. All sociopaths do, actually. Sometimes I wish I were a sociopath, does that make me fucked up?
    You may be interested in checking out this blog post I found that contemplates the common thread between extreme altruists and psychopaths.
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