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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    My INTJ friend did this. I think she had/did a lot of things that were negative(?) Se. Along the way, it looks like she decided to embrace these experiences in a more positive way. I know she became more physically active, deliberately challenging herself to do things she would not have normally done. Loosen up on planning and trust in-the-moment improvising more. It's really awe-inspiring.

    My INFJ daughter will push herself like this, too. She'll be scared to be in situations where she has to depend on her body or senses (her words). It's her normal mode to shut out sensory input. But then I'll see her challenge herself to something scary. Like walk across a high bridge or steep hiking trail. Be in a huge, really noisy festival crowd. Test herself. She said it's like being blindfolded. She feels much better after she does this. I notice that both of them will have a sense of pride and accomplishment. Joy. And they don't necessarily get it from succeeding at it but from the fact that they pushed themselves and gave everything they had to even try it.
    The common thing in both of those examples seems to include physical activity and getting out of your comfort zone. Would you agree with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    What did you think of it, @highlander?
    There is a jumble of concepts or themes for me as I’m thinking about all this. First, there is the topic of developing inferior extraverted sensing. This to me is rather specific. There is the midlife passage, which involves a whole lot of stuff. There is type development, which is related to both of these.

    I thought there were important things in the video, which is why I posted it. I think that the overall process of the midlife passage can take many years. In that period, there can be inflection points, or “crisis” that occur. One such crisis is described in the video. Those crises are periods for potential growth.

    As we grow into adults, people see us through the lens of our auxiliary function, Te for INTJ or Fe for INFJ. It’s our face to the world and is very much linked to our persona. Ni is experienced in a somewhat nebulous way. It isn’t so much that we don’t trust it. It’s more that it isn’t focused and it's almost invisibile to others. As we move through midlife, we get in touch again with who we are vs. the face that we have grown to shown to others. Part of this involves deepening our respect for that inner knowing (Ni) that we have and focusing our ability to recognize, understand and honor those insights and finding a way of expressing those insights. In a similar way, the tertiary “grows up” – from baby Fi or Ti to a more mature version of it. It becomes a stronger and more core part of the personality. I think this more or less happens naturally. The inferior is not as easy in my opinion to develop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have read this sort of advice many times before and it is all well and good in theory, but how does one actually implement it???
    @fia and @Redbone have hit on a couple of the points. I agree with the point about being in nature. I don’t do it enough. It’s one of the reasons I enjoyed living in Northern California. I still have dreams of going back there. Ni-doms spend a fair amount of time in their heads. Developing Se to me seems to involve things that ground in you reality - physical exercise, being present, listening, communicating what’s in our heads in a clear and concise way to others. Get out of our heads. Get out of the house. Do things in the real world. Act instead of think.

    In the video, she described a point where she realized she couldn’t control things, was just exhausted and she and just let go. That allowed her to live in the moment. It strikes me as being similar to what people experience in their relationship with God. You have faith in God. You trust in the outcomes that are driven by him. You pray for guidance and support. You offer yourself up do what you are steered towards. Then you are able to let go. You don’t have so much to worry about anymore because you don't have to do it all on your own. This then leads more to living in the moment and to happiness. When Jung talks about individuation, religion seems to be a common theme that comes up,

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have read this sort of advice many times before and it is all well and good in theory, but how does one actually implement it???

    As was stated, I believe mindfulness is the key to achieving these things - the whole "if I do this now, I will be better next time" philosophy. It grows to be somewhat recursive, given ample effort and intent.

    So it's a lot like working out. You won't get fit by not moving, just as these goals won't come by not thinking and taking conscious action towards the end result. The hard part, perhaps, is discerning what is and is not conducent to what you envision for yourself, developing the ability to identify what opportunities you have to carry out the actions that will drive your normal mind.

  3. #13
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The common thing in both of those examples seems to include physical activity and getting out of your comfort zone. Would you agree with that?
    I would say so. My INTJ friend also said she started to pay more attention to her body. We've talked about diets, the impact of food on our bodies, etc. She said she finally hit the right combination of foods by paying attention to her body responded to it, how she felt when she ate a particular food, and trusting the feedback she got from her body.

    I can identify with this some because I tend to live very much in my head and not pay a lot of attention to my body/physical reality.

    For my daughter, her ISFP brother is the one that will push her. He's very gentle but firm about it. I think there is a part of her that realizes he's more sure of himself in this arena and she's 'safe' with him. My INTJ reported something similar about an ISFP she was traveling with.

    There is a jumble of concepts or themes for me as I’m thinking about all this. First, there is the topic of developing inferior extraverted sensing. This to me is rather specific. There is the midlife passage, which involves a whole lot of stuff. There is type development, which is related to both of these.
    I like this..."midlife passage".

    I thought there were important things in the video, which is why I posted it. I think that the overall process of the midlife passage can take many years. In that period, there can be inflection points, or “crisis” that occur. One such crisis is described in the video. Those crises are periods for potential growth.
    Definitely.

    As we grow into adults, people see us through the lens of our auxiliary function, Te for INTJ or Fe for INFJ. It’s our face to the world and is very much linked to our persona. Ni is experienced in a somewhat nebulous way. It isn’t so much that we don’t trust it. It’s more that it isn’t focused and it's almost invisibile to others. As we move through midlife, we get in touch again with who we are vs. the face that we have grown to shown to others. Part of this involves deepening our respect for that inner knowing (Ni) that we have and focusing our ability to recognize, understand and honor those insights and finding a way of expressing those insights. In a similar way, the tertiary “grows up” – from baby Fi or Ti to a more mature version of it. It becomes a stronger and more core part of the personality. I think this more or less happens naturally. The inferior is not as easy in my opinion to develop.
    Do you think the person will be incomplete if they do not develop their inferior? Can a person be healthy if this is not developed?

    I agree that the inferior is not easy to develop. I tend to think of it as the "the-me-that-is-not-me". That I cannot embrace it and still be myself (I'm unsure to what degree something that is supposed to be largely unconscious can actually be embraced).

  4. #14
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    This doesn't strike me as being about developing the inferior. To expand on this feeling, I will need time to digest.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #15
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    To develope Se, learn to prioritize one option out of the myriad of other options that all carry equal weight.

  6. #16
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    didnt watch the video cuz no time but: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ess-meditation . but while they say that you should do it in some corner of your room, imo that might be a good place to start but learning to do this anywhere is more beneficial imo
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    To develope Se, learn to prioritize one option out of the myriad of other options that all carry equal weight.
    So you pick straws?

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  8. #18
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I second @fia about nature walks!

    I just recently came back from a life-changing trip where I experienced nature as I never had before, and suddenly, for the first time Se or not, I felt like I belonged on this planet. It's like I finally had a body that occupied space in the world, and it has given me a weird kind of confidence that I *am* truly part of the world.

    It's a weird, good feeling
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  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    So you pick straws?
    I prefer kicking badgers myself.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    So you pick straws?
    Not at all. I only see 1 correct option at all times, with backup plans. When I see 2 equal options, I actually get really frustrated (inferior Ni).

    Few months ago I was torn between going a high risk high cost investment and low risk low cost investment. It was stressing me out beyond belief, so I went with neither option and a few months down the road a new opportunity popped up and I took it.

    Inside there is a gut instinct voice that says "Green Light" or "Red Light." That's basically what I listen to. And if it doesn't work, all that means is I've gained experience and knowledge in something that doesn't work. So if you've ever gone skiing or mountain biking, or even done some parkour, its the function that helps you go with the flow and follow the stream of correct decisions on the fly (at least when combined with Ti which doesn't encorporate experience into its decision process the way Te does). As bruce lee once said, "Water can flow, and water can crash. Be water my friend." Thought inhibits this flow state.

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