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  1. #1
    Member RoadPaveMent's Avatar
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    Default Definition of a suicide attempt?

    I've seen quite a...variety of definitions of suicide attempts. So I have some questions for you all. Please understand this is purely hypothetical and for discussion.

    What is your definition of a suicide attempt?
    Is this a standard you only hold only for yourself or do you hold others to it as well?
    If your definition is strict, do you find more lax definitions insulting?
    If lax, do you find stricter definitions uppity?

    Which of these would you consider an attempt under your definition?
    Which ones do you think are not acceptable to be considered attempts?
    Trigger warning for descriptions of suicidal actions.
    Last edited by RoadPaveMent; 05-06-2013 at 03:23 PM.
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    Member RoadPaveMent's Avatar
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    I'll answer myself.

    I consider a suicide attempt something you were trying to make as lethal as possible and were mostly convinced you were going to die. The only thing that saved you was that the mechanism failed or someone you did not expect to show up found you and saved you.

    This is a standard I hold myself to. As for others, more lax definitions make me scratch my head over their logic, but it doesn't bother me too much as long as they don't think their journey with suicide is more significant just because they identify with a certain number of attempts.

    Under my definition, none of those count as attempts. I would consider 2 closest to an attempt because it's higher lethality. But if someone wants to claim the others as attempts, whatever, as long as they understand other people's reports are under stricter definitions.
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    Member RoadPaveMent's Avatar
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    i painfully relate to that lolol
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    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadPaveMent View Post
    I'll answer myself.

    I consider a suicide attempt something you were trying to make as lethal as possible and were mostly convinced you were going to die. The only thing that saved you was that the mechanism failed or someone you did not expect to show up found you and saved you.
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadPaveMent View Post
    Under my definition, none of those count as attempts. I would consider 2 closest to an attempt because it's higher lethality. But if someone wants to claim the others as attempts, whatever, as long as they understand other people's reports are under stricter definitions.
    #1 Possible suicide attempt. The question is did the person think he or she was likely to actually die? Or just some truth or dare scheme?
    #2 I'd consider this a suicide attempt even though you intervened yourself in the middle
    #3 Not a suicide attempt. How do we know the person was even intentionally taking a harmful number of pills to begin with?
    #4 Possible suicide attempt with self intervention
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadPaveMent View Post
    I've seen quite a...variety of definitions of suicide attempts. So I have some questions for you all. Please understand this is purely hypothetical and for discussion.

    What is your definition of a suicide attempt?
    Is this a standard you only hold only for yourself or do you hold others to it as well?
    If your definition is strict, do you find more lax definitions insulting?
    If lax, do you find stricter definitions uppity?

    Which of these would you consider an attempt under your definition?
    Which ones do you think are not acceptable to be considered attempts?
    Trigger warning for descriptions of suicidal actions.
    #2 is a definite suicide attempt.

    #1, and #4 are definite suicidal ideation. #1 borders on a suicide attempt.

    #3 is self-destructive behavior.

    These distinctions would be the same for me as for someone else. I don't believe I would take the definitions of these things to be personal if they are too broad or too strict. Suicide is the act of killing oneself. Taking an action that leads to high probability of death is a suicide attempt even if you attempt to "undo" it by calling for help.

    But these distinctions are mostly hair-splitting. If you are doing the things listed, I strongly suggest seeing someone trained to deal with suicidal ideation and suicide.

    I'm not sure what is meant by someone's "journey with suicide". We all die. Killing oneself would be ending a journey, not a journey itself. Number of suicide attempts is not a badge of (dis)honor, or a way to keep score.

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    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Was a bit iffy in replying. My idea of suicide attempt is anything that a person is aware of that could fatally wound or kill the person and choose to use those methods in order to do so.
    Driving a car is not a suicide attempt because people know that you run the likelihood of death just driving one. Driving one in the intent of hitting something with the idea of death as a process is a suicide attempt.

    The only one I don't see as an attempt is the 3rd one mostly because it seems to run opposite of trying to "truthfully" hurting one's self. As the person honestly believes that cutting back on the amount of pills eaten could actually help the person.

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    Member RoadPaveMent's Avatar
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    I shortened "journey with suicide ideation/gestures/actions/attempts" to "journey with suicide". Perhaps I should just say "experiences with wanting to end one's life".

    So far my definition is the strictest...
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    Suicide attempt is an act that has a real chance (per attempter's ideas) to end one's life.
    Suicide theather is display of behaviors that are known to evoke ideas of "suicide attempt" while doing nothing to that effect.
    Suicide wish is contemplation of methods and circumstances to end one's life with emphasis on ascertainty and less (if any) effect to display.
    Suicide actuality is a deed which ends one's life.

  10. #10
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadPaveMent View Post
    I shortened "journey with suicide ideation/gestures/actions/attempts" to "journey with suicide". Perhaps I should just say "experiences with wanting to end one's life".

    So far my definition is the strictest...
    I forgot to explain the reasoning of why I was more lax. But this is much easier. I'll do my best.

    I am more lax mostly because I see having a stricter definition of suicide attempt (as opposed to ideation/gestures/actions) isn't looking at the action of its worth.

    Since this is hypothetical, I am sure 1, 2, and 4 have thought about suicide for a long time now. They have probably thought about suicide and thought what would happen if they did committed suicide (suicide idealization,) It is just that in all three of those cases, they are conflicted about actually succeeding with their actions (Suicide action) Will I stop bleeding? Will I drown and not wake up? Will I stop breathing? If I eat all these pills, will someone find out what I have done? Should I? Actions and attempt, I see both to be on the same line. There would be no attempt without action. There would be no overdose if the person for 2 didn't choose to eat a lot of pills at once (just because the person changed his mind doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt.)

    But, to me, in all 3 cases, it does not escape the fact that it is an attempt at committing suicide.

    Suicide idealization is only when one thinks about suicide. When you think suicide could end things. That is basically before the "warning signs" and action.
    Suicide gesture is when you are trying to hint to people that you are in need of help (a generic scenario being someone cutting their wrists or something mundane as not feeling well)
    Suicide action is when it is the go ahead with the suicide attempt. (overdosing on drugs, jumping off that bridge, being mere moments to hanging him/herself)

    Idealization > Gestures > Action=Attempt

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