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View Poll Results: Are women more irrational than men?

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  • Yes

    12 27.27%
  • No

    27 61.36%
  • Kinda-sorta

    5 11.36%
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  1. #51
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    ... are women more irrational than men?
    Women are more rational than men in my opinion because on average they are in greater touch with their emotions and use them as guides to balance their inner and outer lives.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
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    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  2. #52
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    lol @Amargith just repped me that I basically copycatted her position here!

    So, I will take another tangent, but have only NOW skimmed the thread, so if I am copying someone else here, rep me and chastise me accordingly.

    There is a difference between being irrational and showing strong emotions. Just because you might not understand the reason behind someone else's show of strong emotion, does not mean there isn't a rational reason for that behaviour. I find people mix these two up - having a powerful emotional response or using emotion in an argument is not the same as being irrational.

    eta: When @Marmotini gets angry at someone for trolling her, it's a rational response - there's a clear reason and one could say it is perfectly logical.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #53
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    It could be nature or nurture, but men generally demonstrate more compartmentalism in their cognitive functioning. It has been fascinating to me to see how men can demonstrate certain compartments of clear reasoning, but then also be capable of a level of irrationality that is equally impressive. I have found men also capable of much more single-mindedness and even obsession in their irrationality.

    The most accepted forms of male irrationality are associated with power and so are viewed in a different light. Aggression, sports enthusiasm, etc. are clear examples of extreme irrationality, but are seen as different from crying. I have found it is generally far easier to reason with someone who is sad than someone who is angry because anger is deeply connected to feeling entitled and powerful. A person is much more ready to feel empowered when sad than to become reasoned when angry. In this way I find men are capable of far more extreme degrees of irrationality as accepted by society.
    yep. ^

    I'm in high school right now and even at this age at which girls are said to be most mercurial, I don't see much of a difference between genders. Guys might be less caught up in drama, but they still do incredibly stupid things driven by emotion.

    But yeah, if anyone, it seems like guys tend to be more irrational, at least externally. It's more acceptable, while people are quicker to mock and correct irrationality in females.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Women are more rational than men in my opinion because on average they are in greater touch with their emotions and use them as guides to balance their inner and outer lives.
    Not only did you steal Amar's line of reasoning, you stole my adjustment to her wording!

    Shaaaame... SHAME!!!

    (I already dispatched with this line of reasoning, btw)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    There is a difference between being irrational and showing strong emotions. Just because you might not understand the reason behind someone else's show of strong emotion, does not mean there isn't a rational reason for that behaviour. I find people mix these two up - having a powerful emotional response or using emotion in an argument is not the same as being irrational.
    This is absolutely true.

    To be irrational is to allow something -- often either emotionality, lack of knowledge, close-mindedness, or lack of reasoning skills -- to cause one to behave in an unreasonable manner (a manner unsuited to the circumstances at hand).

    Clearly it's a bit of a slippery linguistic slope, but it's kinda one of those things that, when you see it (granted, you are a discriminating person with a keen intellect and proper knowledge of the situation), you just know what it is.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    I find the idea that females are less rational strange, clearly both men and women have different acceptable ways of expressing their various emotions. It's more acceptable for females to voice their discomforts in the interpersonal area while it is more acceptable for men to express their rage and anger so they have a more narrower range of traditionally acceptable emotional expression.

    It seems most people unconsciously view women as victims/hypoagents and men as perpetrators and active agents(even feminism seems to have an apparent lack of self-awareness in this regard). Viewing men as victims is counter to the perceived traditional gender roles.

    Anyways I think human females have nearly identical reasoning abilities as men although their brains are somewhat structurally different, they have different mating behaviors that I think are partly biological in origin.
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  7. #57
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    the first would be better, although it can fall short in its attempts. You are stating the memes society has established for men and women, but are these assumptions accurate? That does need to be examined.
    It is accurate to say that these are the general stereotypes and expectations in our society. It is also accurate to say that exceptions to these abound, and that they are also changing as social roles evolve with the reality of people's lives. I reject such stereotypes and expectations in favor of seeing each person as an individual above all else, but cannot deny that the overall trend is borne out in the people I meet.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    One hypothesis I have about women tending towards demonstrating more emotional communication (once again assuming that is the case) is that the tradition of women caring for chi,dren has required them to be able to communicate emotions and ideas more directly in some cases. Children do not have emotional regulation or empathy established and so their primary caretakers must develop communications styles to accommodate this. To care for an infant requires empathy because of their limited communication. If this is the case it does not necessarily mean that women are more emotional, but are more likely to have a communication style in which emotions are more on the surface. What do you think?
    I have seen this mentioned in various places. Do you agree with the evolutionary biology argument that women have evolved this way because of their longstanding childcare responsibilities? Or, do you consider the inherent abilities of men and women to be comparable, with women simply making more use of emotional skills because they traditionally have done this kind of work? Either would account for why women are raised this way, but one points to biological hard-wiring, while the other points to cultural conditioning.

    That being said, I don't understand how a mother can successfully raise a child without the ability to make rational decisions on her own and the child's behalf. Similarly, I would suspect an understanding of emotional reactions would help men face various adversaries in their stereotypical roles as defenders and warriors. I don't think it's that simple, and the fact that the development or external assignment of these skill sets is not logical is itself not logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    The man's perspective and the womans perspective will never truly understand each other.

    One is not better than the other, but I shouldn't be called "sexist" for preferring my perspective and having a love/hate relationship with the feminine perspective. Likewise it's normal for women to have a love/hate relationship with men, I don't think they are "man haters" for it.

    It is just natural, the necessarry downside that come with attraction of opposites! But how boring would life be otherwise...!?
    Well, I find I understand the perspective of most men better than that of most women I encounter, and find their company provides plenty of interest. You may feel you cannot truly understand a woman's perspective, nor she understand yours. This is not sexist, it is just your experience. It is you. Others' mileage may vary.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    There is a difference between being irrational and showing strong emotions. Just because you might not understand the reason behind someone else's show of strong emotion, does not mean there isn't a rational reason for that behaviour. I find people mix these two up - having a powerful emotional response or using emotion in an argument is not the same as being irrational.

    eta: When @Marmotini gets angry at someone for trolling her, it's a rational response - there's a clear reason and one could say it is perfectly logical.
    I would not call such a response rational, though it may be understandable, just as it is understandable when ice cubes left on the counter melt. Expressing that anger in ways that add more heat than light to a discussion is not rational, from anyone.
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  8. #58
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Actually, you're being kind of irrational.

    The way Jung used that term is pretty different than the way it's normally thought of.

    There's a reason Keirsey called the NTs the Rationals, and not the NFs.
    You mean as in rationalisation, also known as justification?
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  9. #59
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I would not call such a response rational, though it may be understandable, just as it is understandable when ice cubes left on the counter melt. Expressing that anger in ways that add more heat than light to a discussion is not rational, from anyone.
    I suppose it all boils down to what any given individual sees as rational, then.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #60
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    Personally, I would use "irrational" to describe any of the following:

    • failure to follow a coherent line of reasoning that others can understand
    • extreme/inappropriate emotional outbursts or reactiveness
    • behavior that demonstrates a disregard of known consequences/priorities


    It's difficult for me to generalize group traits, so I cannot say whether men or women do any of the above with greater frequency.

    One thing I have observed, as others have noted: in general, women do tend to be more expressive in terms of emotions (such as affection, crying, talking about hurt feelings, etc), whereas men tend to be more reserved about showing emotion (with the possible exception of anger/aggression). However, not all emotional expressions of sadness, anger, etc. are extreme or inappropriate, eg, I wouldn't consider crying due to experiencing a major loss to be irrational.
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