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  1. #11
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Sort of.

    ENFj is very theatrical, but it's done to inspire camaraderie and done with a finesse of smoothing things over and taking the lead that I just can't carry off. ENFj builds the new social structure from the ground up, often exhausting themselves doing so. Can't see me doing that.

    I even acknowledged that interestingly when I went to college I thought ENFj goals were the ideal, and eventually ran screaming away, realizing I had no interest (and not gifts) re-building the social structure, nor did I want any part in it.

    I've known a lot of Socionics ENFjs though I think, because they often share my politics. They're just more die-hard. ENFjs (or Betas, I guess) hold on to their politics with a regimented ferocity I could never imagine. They would never ever consider European nationalism as a possibility, had they embraced the dogma of Marxism. The ENFj will die achieving their goal of political utopia, if need be.

    I think they make excellent and dedicated school teachers, for that reason, because god knows no sane person would want to work in that system anymore.

    ESFp can change their politics, though their ethics are rigid, their vision is not. So they will adjust to ethics, not to maintaining the vision.

    Both are very political, charismatic, even manipulative types, prone to annoying displays of emotion.

    It's just that the ESFps annoying displays of emotion can be even in their own detriment (which is often the case with me!!) because they're more impetuous and authentic.
    Interesting explanation of the differences.

    At first I wasn't sure if you were my conflicter but the bolded part thinks maybe your are. I have a hard time dealing with annoying, impetuous displays of emotion in others even if it is more authentic. I seek more emotional calmness and predictability in my relations with others.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Interesting explanation of the differences.

    At first I wasn't sure if you were my conflicter but the bolded part thinks maybe your are. I have a hard time dealing with annoying, impetuous displays of emotion in others even if it is more authentic. I seek more emotional calmness and predictability in my relations with others.
    See I need to look into all the relations, but I do know with my ESFj friend for example, she and I related very much about our outward expressions of emotion, she was always saying that her boyfriend would say nasty things to her quietly, or do bad things behind closed doors (and she wasn't exaggerating, I found out at one point what he was doing was pretty much unacceptable) so she would emote on him, loudly, in front of other people. This for a time made her seem like the "bad guy" ...until it became glaringly apparent that she was exposing him for what he was doing, and it was funny because it reminded me of me, exposing people for their passive-aggressive or so-called "rational" cruelty ...it's not like something is worse just because it's public; in fact she and I agreed that the underhandedness of being quietly cruel or doing it with a rational front is the sickest thing of all.

    That's our perception.

    HOWEVER, where we differed, is that I noticed she would kind of plan and orchestrate scenes and try to get me to play along. She also got annoyed if someone got emotional or acted out on the "wrong occasion" (such as a holiday or party) ...and over all I found over time that a lot of her emotional displays were a lot more connived for effect, and she even admitted as much lol.

    So I don't know if ESFj and ESFp are relations of illusion for that reason, for relating on the surface but then me basically becoming disgusted with her for being so conniving about it, or making scenes on purpose for effect ...and she becoming very annoyed when I wouldn't "play along" or if I had authentic feelings at what she deemed an inconvenient moment.

    I've considered the possibility that in Socionics she may have even been an ENFj for this reason, but overall I think the Fe dom in Socionics has this kind of impressive theatrics, on purpose, and ESFj seems to fit her better.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Interesting explanation of the differences.

    At first I wasn't sure if you were my conflicter but the bolded part thinks maybe your are. I have a hard time dealing with annoying, impetuous displays of emotion in others even if it is more authentic. I seek more emotional calmness and predictability in my relations with others.
    In fact have you considered Delta quadra for this reason? Aren't they the most mellow and understated of the Quadras?

    However, I guess the planful nature of Fe in Alpha and Beta quadras would make emotional "merriment" more predictable. For example, even with my theatrical friend, you still probably would be shielded from theatrics on special group occasions like birthdays or planned outings.

    Just woe to you if you lived with her every day. She made me look absolutely behind the scenes in comparison. There were times when I just wanted away from her sense of theater. I honestly found it rude after a while. It was like she couldn't live without some kind of plotting drama.

    I think she was a Beta though, really reading into Socionics. She was a very hands on, practical person though. She was constantly cleaning and organizing, she found it soothing, for all intents and purposes she seemed very ESFj. But the theatrics for specific effect I think is a Beta trait.

  4. #14
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    In fact have you considered Delta quadra for this reason? Aren't they the most mellow and understated of the Quadras?

    However, I guess the planful nature of Fe in Alpha and Beta quadras would make emotional "merriment" more predictable. For example, even with my theatrical friend, you still probably would be shielded from theatrics on special group occasions like birthdays or planned outings.

    Just woe to you if you lived with her every day. She made me look absolutely behind the scenes in comparison. There were times when I just wanted away from her sense of theater. I honestly found it rude after a while. It was like she couldn't live without some kind of plotting drama.

    I think she was a Beta though, really reading into Socionics. She was a very hands on, practical person though. She was constantly cleaning and organizing, she found it soothing, for all intents and purposes she seemed very ESFj. But the theatrics for specific effect I think is a Beta trait.
    I've considered delta as well. But reading the descriptions LII (alpha type) seems to fit better than EII (a delta type).

    If I typed myself correctly as LII, EIE is supposedly my semi-dual. From my understanding of relationships, the semi dual isn't too bad, they meet some of your needs but not the way a true dual can. EIE's theatrics can be too much and too pretentious for me. ESE can be quite emotional outward but they are less inclined towards trying to purposefully be theatric for effect. Thus my relationships with them are somewhat more natural and comfortable compared to EIE.
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  5. #15
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    ...interesting comparison of SEE vs EIE, thanks.

    For some reason I really like both these two types.

    The EIE version of emotionality sounds a bit better to me going by what's mentioned here, because it seems like something just enjoyable instead of something that has to be taken seriously and then suddenly not supposed to be taken seriously anymore, I mean the SEE sounds so whimsical. Not that this is a terribly big problem, I can be whimsical myself but I can imagine it being a real pain in the ass It's pretty good though if the whatever crap is truly forgotten later by SEE, which is exactly what I'm like It'd also annoy me when EIE would want to curb my own emotionality based on whatever stupid group standards as mentioned here.

    No type is perfect, after all. :P

  6. #16
    LadyLazarus
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    In my case; yes. One way or another I'll find something to whine about. It's a gift.

  7. #17
    Stansmith
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  8. #18
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    ...
    Who's all Gamma in the top pic?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  9. #19
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Who's all Gamma in the top pic?
    I don't know, but I've heard:

    Jay-Z: ENTj
    Will Smith: ESFp

  10. #20
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I don't know, but I've heard:

    Jay-Z: ENTj
    Will Smith: ESFp
    I have no comment on Jay Z...

    but I really though Smith was ENFj....
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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